Black holes may not exist after all

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SUMMARY

The forum discussion centers on the contentious topic of black holes and their existence, particularly in light of Stephen Hawking's recent assertions. Hawking argues that while classical general relativity posits the existence of black holes with event horizons, the implications of quantum gravity may challenge this notion. Participants debate the validity of Hawking's claims, the necessity of a unified theory of quantum gravity, and the potential for alternative models such as the fuzzball concept. The discussion highlights the lack of consensus in the scientific community regarding the characteristics of black holes and the ongoing need for experimental validation.

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  • Understanding of classical general relativity and its implications for black holes.
  • Familiarity with quantum gravity theories and their challenges.
  • Knowledge of the fuzzball model as an alternative to traditional black hole theories.
  • Awareness of the significance of event horizons in black hole physics.
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  • Research Stephen Hawking's latest papers on black holes and quantum gravity.
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  • Study the concept of event horizons in both classical and quantum contexts.
  • Investigate current experimental efforts to detect or refute the existence of black holes.
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Physicists, astrophysicists, and students interested in the ongoing debates surrounding black hole existence and the implications of quantum gravity theories.

  • #31
PAllen said:
I meant a closed, finite, universe; one where future null conformal infinity is undefined.
Even in a closed universe, is it meaningful to distinguish between worldlines that terminate in a black hole singularity and worldlines that terminate in the Big Crunch singularity? If so, then even if the standard definition of "event horizon" in terms of escaping to infinity wouldn't apply, perhaps one could still define a different sort of horizon marking the boundary between points in spacetime where all lightlike worldlines through that point end in the black hole singularity, and points where at least some lightlike worldlines terminate in the Big Crunch singularity. But maybe a distinct black hole singularity doesn't exist in this case, I don't know.
 
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  • #32
JesseM said:
Even in a closed universe, is it meaningful to distinguish between worldlines that terminate in a black hole singularity and worldlines that terminate in the Big Crunch singularity? If so, then even if the standard definition of "event horizon" in terms of escaping to infinity wouldn't apply, perhaps one could still define a different sort of horizon marking the boundary between points in spacetime where all lightlike worldlines through that point end in the black hole singularity, and points where at least some lightlike worldlines terminate in the Big Crunch singularity. But maybe a distinct black hole singularity doesn't exist in this case, I don't know.

But then some events inside the apparent horizon (near the big crunch) would be considered outside the true horizon. An 'outgoing' null ray from them might be caught be the big crunch without reaching what was the BH singularity.

I think, for a universe without the appropriate infinity it makes more sense to define an 'effective BH' in terms of the local trapping surface plus classically predicted singularity.
 
  • #33
This is drifting into the realm of personal theories.
 

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