Blackbodies and Maxwell's Whole Number Wavelength Theory

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of blackbodies in relation to Maxwell's electromagnetic theory and the behavior of waves within an oven. Participants explore the nature of resonant wavelengths, energy distribution among these wavelengths, and the implications of classical versus quantum theories of blackbody radiation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how an ideal blackbody "knows" which wavelength to emit, suggesting a potential misunderstanding of the properties of blackbodies.
  • Another participant compares the situation to resonant waves in a drum or organ pipe, noting that only certain wavelengths can persist, while others die out.
  • A different participant seeks clarification on how waves die out and proposes that there may be a threshold frequency beyond which waves cannot exist due to energy constraints.
  • One participant challenges the understanding of energy carried by waves, indicating a possible misconception regarding the relationship between wavelength and amplitude.
  • Another participant asserts that blackbodies emit energy uniformly across all frequencies within a range, but questions the correctness of their statement regarding the existence of frequencies that exceed energy thresholds.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of resonant wavelengths and the implications of energy thresholds for wave existence. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing interpretations of the concepts presented.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in understanding the assumptions behind energy distribution and the definitions of resonant frequencies. The discussion also touches on the transition from classical to quantum theories without reaching a consensus on the implications.

Apophilius
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I've been reading The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene and everything has rolled along smoothly until just recently. He writes:

Brian Greene said:
It turns out that when Maxwell's electromagnetic theory is applied to the radiation in an oven it shows that the waves generated by the hot walls must have a whole number of peaks and troughs that fit perfectly between opposite surfaces.

Furthermore:

Brian Greene said:
Each of the allowed waves--regardless of wavelength--carries the same amount of energy

So here's my question. How does the ideal blackbody (which I assume the oven to be in this case) magically know what wavelength to emit to fit perfectly between the sides of an oven? Is it a property of blackbodies, or have I simply missed something here?
 
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It's like the vibrations of a drumhead or of an organ pipe. Only the resonant waves that exactly fit within the length of the pipe will be found, because they're the only ones that can persist. Waves with other wavelengths die out.
Each of the allowed waves--regardless of wavelength--carries the same amount of energy
Bear in mind that Greene's describing a paradox here. He immediately adds that this classical version of blackbody radiation leads to infinite total energy, and is therefore obviously wrong, and for that reason needs to be replaced by the quantum version.
 
I hate to be a pain, but can you elaborate more on how exactly they die out?

And I had thought that as frequency reaches a certain threshold, the minimum possible energy exceeds that allowed for each wave and therefore they cannot exist. So the statement isn't entirely false, is it? All the waves that can exist have the same amount of energy.
 
Ask yourself, how would you envision such a wavelength in a piece of string? For the second part of your last question, I'm not sure what you mean, but I think you have a wrong idea about the energy carried by a wave, in terms of wavelength vs. amplitude.
 
So if the resonant frequencies are the only ones that exist within the oven, the waves that are detected are standing. Do resonant wave mechanics apply just the same then for the light bouncing around?

And what I said was that blackbodies emit energy, with equal distribution of energy to all frequencies of light within the possible range of frequencies. When you get a frequency with minimum energy that exceeds the energy threshold allowed for frequencies, it doesn't exist. Is this a correct statement? If not, how is it incorrect?
 
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