Boccherini cello concerto, mostly by someone else

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the performance of a Boccherini cello concerto, specifically Concerto no 6, G.479, and the complexities surrounding its orchestration and arrangement. Participants explore the historical context of the piece, issues of authorship, and the phenomenon of borrowing and adapting musical works.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a performance of Boccherini's concerto where the orchestral parts did not match the original, leading to the discovery of an arrangement by Georges Papin and later orchestration by Michel Brusselmans.
  • Another participant comments on the broader issue of musical borrowing, referencing Fritz Kreisler's practice of attributing his own compositions to other composers to avoid criticism.
  • A third participant shares experiences from playing in a Collegium Musicum, discussing the prevalence of anonymous compositions and the historical context of arrangements, including pieces by Praetorius and Susato.
  • There is mention of the "Adagio in G minor," which is often misattributed to Albinoni but was actually composed by Remo Giazetto, highlighting the complexities of authorship in music.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a shared interest in the themes of musical borrowing and authorship, but there is no consensus on the implications or significance of these practices. The discussion remains open-ended with multiple perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various historical examples of musical borrowing and adaptation, indicating that the discussion is informed by a rich context of music history, but specific details about the original compositions and their adaptations remain unresolved.

Who May Find This Useful

Musicians, music historians, and those interested in the complexities of musical authorship and adaptation may find this discussion relevant.

Jonathan Scott
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I've just been playing in a mainly baroque orchestral concert (playing continuo on a digital harpsichord) but we also included a Boccherini cello concerto in D major, played by an excellent local cellist. The weird thing was that the string parts we were given did not appear to match any of Boccherini's cello concerti. However, we eventually spotted that what we had was Concerto no 6, G.479, but with orchestral parts totally unrelated to Boccherini's version!

From a bit of detective work, it seems that Georges Papin, the principal cellist of a French orchestra, came across the solo part of the Boccherini concerti and wrote a piano accompaniment for it (apparently with any reference whatsoever to the original concerto) so that he could perform it. His arrangement was published in 1897. Another composer, Michel Brusselmans, then apparently came across that cello and piano version and orchestrated it again, splitting out the piano part across a small string orchestra, and published that in 1922.

I don't know whether the original edition had been lost or mislaid temporarily, but it is now available again (on IMSLP as a very old edition and as a modern typeset version). As far as I can tell, there is literally nothing in common between the original and the version that we played apart from a large amount of the solo part (and even that wasn't totally identical, as the arranger had borrowed some measures from another Boccherini concerto to fill in a gap)!

As I was playing harpsichord for this concert, I was looking forward to the Boccherini as a chance for a break. However, during rehearsal, it was rapidly discovered that it needed a conductor (unlike the baroque works), especially for entries after cadenzas and similar, so I didn't get a break after all, and had to rapidly work out how to conduct some very awkward stuff that I'd never heard of before. Fortunately, the soloist played very impressively providing an excellent distraction from my somewhat nervous flailing, and it all hung together very well.

[Edited to correct typo]
 
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I think this happens more than you know. Folks lift ideas from others change it around and repost as the original author or as anonymous.

Fritz Kreisler created several beautiful solos but said they were other composers lost works because he felt people wouldn’t appreciate them I guess. I also think it expanded his repertoire without the criticizing that goes with playing well known works.
 
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I played a tenor recorder in a Collegium Musicum long ago. This borrowing is interesting to say the least. We used to joke about our favorite composer being 'Anonymous' ... who seems to have been really active over a couple of hundred years. :confused:

When I first started with the group, we worked on some pieces from Praetorius' Terpsichore. Day one we played 'Ding Dong! The witch is dead', a bouree (kind of dance) in Terpsichore. Of course, that is not the name of the piece as written in Terpsichore. Even Praetorius himself claimed not to have authored the tunes he used, merely wrote arrangements. If you've seen the movie 'Wizard of Oz', you probably know the song.

We suspected that Anonymous was really the original composer. :smile:

Susato (Tielman or Tylman or 5 other spellings of his first name) was an instrument maker who published music for customers. His Dansereye has a lot of fun pieces, some of which magically appeared later on in other works by other composers.

And then just for fun: there is the Albinoni (1671-1751) piece "Adagio in G minor". Written by Remo Giazetto in the 1940's. Sort of reverse plagiarism, stealing a composer's "fame"? See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adagio_in_G_minor
 
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jim mcnamara said:
@jedishrfu here is La Bouree on youtube:


I know that song but never knew its name. Thanks, its wonderful to hear it again.

It also reminded of some harp songs I heard in a trip to Ireland a few years ago composed by Turlough O'Carolan.
 
With respect to the Wizard of Oz, I always liked the Winkie's Marching song. I kept thinking they liked Oreo cookies because they kept saying OH-RE-OH.



and this humorous adaptation:

 
This is my favorite Bocherini song starts at 4:26



I first heard it in the movie Master and Commander.
 
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