News Breaking Down the 2016 POTUS Race Contenders & Issues

[phinds]

Screw opinions, here's a fact. We have gotten to this sorry state of affairs with Republican administrations and Republican Congress, Democratic administrations with Democratic Congress, Republican administrations and Democratic Congress, and Democratic administrations with Republican Congress. It doesn't take a physicist to see that the problem is Democrats and Republicans.

So what does THAT mean? Who do you think the Democrats and Republicans ARE?

To quote Pogo, "we have met the enemy and they are us".

 

[Hornbein]

So basically they are saying, "our candidate is a threat to the Constitution but we support him anyway". It really makes one wonder if these guys would ever draw the line anywhere. Even more perplexing [well, it should be] is his support from Evangelicals.

It's called "politics." Otherwise known as "saying one thing while doing another." It isn't physics.

Today Ryan implicitly invoked the conscience clause - the right of delegates to revoke the popular vote due to conscience.

To revoke the vote out of fear of losing their jobs, I'd say. A political party is a private organization for the purpose of pursuing the mutual self-interest of the members. The Federal government has no jurisdiction over their methods. I doubt that any state government does either. They can do whatever they want, as far as I know.

 

[Hornbein]

So what does THAT mean? Who do you think the Democrats and Republicans ARE?

To quote Pogo, "we have met the enemy and they are us".

Each party is under the control of a few (100?) people who do not invite scrutiny. By far the most important thing to enter such high ranks is fund-raising ability.

 

[jim hardy]

sorry for the late entry

The shooter was born in Indiana. Trump outright lied

did you mean New York ?
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...ow-so-far-about-the-suspected-orlando-shooter

— Mateen, 29, was born in New York in 1986.

 

[mheslep]

sorry for the late entry
did you mean New York ?
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...ow-so-far-about-the-suspected-orlando-shooter

In the released prepared remarks for that speech, the exact phrase was "was born to Afghan parents who immigrated to the United States." When the speech was actually given, the "to" became "an", as in "born an afghan".

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-addresses-terrorism-immigration-and-national-security

 

[Kevin McHugh]

So what does THAT mean? Who do you think the Democrats and Republicans ARE?

To quote Pogo, "we have met the enemy and they are us".

I think Reps and Dems are a cabal of corruptocrats. And your Pogo reference is spot on.

 

[gleem]

Trump hails Brexit as "great" and "fantastic". He has a similar plan for the US so I guess we get a little preview of a Trump administration and how it might affect the world order. Unfortunately we only have less than six months to see what might occur perhas too short a time to really see the full affect. Any isolationist policy as Trump embraces can only reduce our security and weaken our economy.

 

[jim hardy]

Any isolationist policy as Trump embraces can only reduce our security and weaken our economy.

Basis for that assertion ?

 

[gleem]

It would seem that a Trump isolationism would create political vacuums which would be filled by those who would like to see us twist slowly in the wind. The world would be quite different if the US did not get involve in WWI or if it decided to bring all the boys home after WWII as was very popular. We know the price of leadership but we have yet to experience the cost of isolationism. Last year 65M persons fled their homeland 1 out of 113 person across the globe according to the UNHCR the United Nations Refugee Agency and that number is up about 10% from 2014. While there are no great wars there is an unsettling unrest spreading around the world. Isolation is not a solution.

I don't think Trump's trying to brand the USA like he does his properties will fly with the rest of the world. The current economic climate of the world is certainly tentative especially with Brexit. If Trump where to pull a USexit changing our trading rules with other countries across the globe there would be so much anxiety in the markets I fear anything might happen. The world economic situation as it stands now is a bit precarious. I think you would see a large amount of money leaving this country. Trump must think the US is the only game on this planet.

 

[mheslep]

It would seem that a Trump isolationism would create political vacuums which would be filled by those who would like to see us twist slowly in the wind. The world would be quite different if the US did not get involve in WWI or if it decided to bring all the boys home after WWII as was very popular. We know the price of leadership but we have yet to experience the cost of isolationism. Last year 65M persons fled their homeland 1 out of 113 person across the globe according to the UNHCR the United Nations Refugee Agency and that number is up about 10% from 2014. While there are no great wars there is an unsettling unrest spreading around the world.

What do you mean by "yet to experience"? These massive refugee movements have occurred under Obama, caused by the rise of ISIS and the Syrian Civil war in which Russia intervened. So it is Obama's isolationism to which you object, if large waives of refugees with little US involvement define isolationism? You'd have the US invade Syria?

 

[Astronuc]

These massive refugee movements have occurred under Obama, caused by the rise of ISIS and the Syrian Civil war in which Russia intervened.

and under Bush before Obama.

The group originated as Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad in 1999, which pledged allegiance to al-Qaeda and participated in the Iraqi insurgency following the March 2003 invasion of Iraq by Western forces. Joining other Sunni insurgent groups to form the Mujahideen Shura Council, this group proclaimed the formation of the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI) in October 2006.

The precursors to Daesh started and evolved beginning with the Clinton administration, and flourished under Bush, particularly after the invasion of Iraq and the disruption of the social order in that nation. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was able to organize his caliph in a prison established by the US military during the Bush Administration.

Would anyone argue that US should occupy both Iraq and Syria? Or let some other nation intervene?

 

[mheslep]

and under Bush before Obama.

The precursors to Daesh started and evolved beginning with the Clinton administration, and flourished under Bush, particularly after the invasion of Iraq and the disruption of the social order in that nation. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was able to organize his caliph in a prison established by the US military during the Bush Administration.

Would anyone argue that US should occupy both Iraq and Syria? Or let some other nation intervene?

The massive refugee increase to which the prior poster referred, in defining the consequences of isolationism, did not begin until the Obama era.

The choice of precursors to Daesh in the 1990s is arbitrary, when al-Zarqawi adopted the name, like the date of a trade mark. Zarqawi and lieutenants were influenced by the Moslem Brotherhood out of Egypt, as was Bin Laden, and it's ideology of global jihadism going back to the 1920s and the fall of the Ottomans, and best articulated later by Q'tub. If "flourished" is to be gaged by cities held and populations controlled and the possession of large arsenals, and not by the unrealized plans of a guy in an Iraqi prison, then that didn't begin to occur for Daesh until 2011.

 

[jim hardy]

While there are no great wars there is an unsettling unrest spreading around the world. Isolation is not a solution.

Our capitol city is named for the president who advised against entangling foreign alliances
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/10/george-washington-isolationist/246453/

"Cultivate peace and harmony with all," Washington counseled. "Permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations and passionate attachments for others should be excluded... The nation which indulges towards another an habitual hatred, or an habitual fondness, is in some degree a slave."
...
Washington believed that with regard to foreign nations, it's best to trade freely and "have with them as little political connection as possible. So far as we have already formed engagements, let them be fulfilled with perfect good faith. Here let us stop."

We've really brought peace to the mideast, eh ?

I think you would see a large amount of money leaving this country

http://buchanan.org/blog/the-isolationist-myth-165
All four presidents on Mt. Rushmore were protectionists. The greatest era of industrial expansion in America, where our workers saw the greatest rise in their standard of living was from 1860-1914, when America protected her industries and jobs behind a tariff wall. During that half century, U.S. exports rose 700 percent, while imports rose only 500 percent! By 1914, U.S. workers were earning 50 percent more that Brits, and more than twice what Germans and Frenchmen made.

No nation has ever risen to pre-eminence through free trade. Britain before 1848, America and Germany from 1865 to 1914, Japan from 1950 on, all practiced protectionism.

i didn't verify Buchanan's data , though,

 

[Dr Transport]

Let me poke this gorilla...if it hasn't been said, let me be the first, if not, I defer to the first person to suggest it.

If the Republicans were smart, they'd draft Condoleezza Rice for president, who better to run, an educated black female, if she didn't win, they could point to the Democrats and Liberals and call them hypocrites for not voting for the stereo-typed person they desperately want to be president.

 

[russ_watters]

Let me poke this gorilla...if it hasn't been said, let me be the first, if not, I defer to the first person to suggest it.

If the Republicans were smart, they'd draft Condoleezza Rice for president, who better to run, an educated black female, if she didn't win, they could point to the Democrats and Liberals and call them hypocrites for not voting for the stereo-typed person they desperately want to be president.

That would have been more useful advice about 6 months ago.

 

[Dr Transport]

That would have been more useful advice about 6 months ago.

I been saying it to my family for at least 6 months...I tend not to argue politics, not worth the fighting about it.

 

[Astronuc]

Conservative columnist George Will said Friday that he's leaving the GOP over Donald Trump's rise to becoming the party's standard bearer.
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/prominent-conservative-columnist-says-hes-200253919.html

If only William Frank Buckley Jr. were still alive.

 

[phinds]

Conservative columnist George Will said Friday that he's leaving the GOP over Donald Trump's rise to becoming the party's standard bearer.

William Kristol may well follow him, based on what I've heard him say on talking-head TV and his failed attempt to get a viable conservative alternative to Trump. It's good to know the Republicans do still have some principled people, after Ryan turned spineless. Still, these talking head types are the elite that Trump's base hates so it's not going to slow him down any.

EDIT: oops. I see now that Kristol is vowing to keep up the good fight against Trump rather than quit the party.

 

[Evo]

Let me poke this gorilla...if it hasn't been said, let me be the first, if not, I defer to the first person to suggest it.

If the Republicans were smart, they'd draft Condoleezza Rice for president, who better to run, an educated black female, if she didn't win, they could point to the Democrats and Liberals and call them hypocrites for not voting for the stereo-typed person they desperately want to be president.

I would hate to think that people would be so stupid as to criticize people for not voting for someone just because they are a black woman.

 

[russ_watters]

I would hate to think that people would be so stupid as to criticize people for not voting for someone just because they are a black woman.

Really? You don't remember Obama's two elections?

 

[Evo]

Really? You don't remember Obama's two elections?

I don't think he was elected only because he was black and re-elected only because he was black, I guess that is what you are saying.

 

[OmCheeto]

I don't think he was elected only because he was black and re-elected only because he was black, I guess that is what you are saying.

Well, I'm pretty sure I started out, thinking; "The old white dudes have really messed things up recently. I think I'll vote for a black dude for a change".

But then, I decided that was a bit shallow, and did a bit of digging.

I posted my research of Obama's voting record on key bills last month in the "Why is anyone supporting Obama?"thread. He voted the same way I would have. He therefore represents my values. I will therefore vote for him, regardless of what he says. Because it's been my experience that in order to get elected, all successful politicians will say whatever they think you want to hear.

Hence, I never listen to any of them.

[ref: Feb 16, 2008, PF]

As always, Ok to delete, if I've gone off topic.

 

[Hornbein]

Let me poke this gorilla...if it hasn't been said, let me be the first, if not, I defer to the first person to suggest it.

If the Republicans were smart, they'd draft Condoleezza Rice for president, who better to run, an educated black female, if she didn't win, they could point to the Democrats and Liberals and call them hypocrites for not voting for the stereo-typed person they desperately want to be president.

Condi suffers from stage fright. She will never run for any office.

 

[Astronuc]

Many experienced GOP strategists unwilling to work for Trump
https://www.yahoo.com/news/help-trump-finds-few-willing-him-063121608--election.html

With Trump, Smith said, “I would feel like a mercenary. I can’t be away from my young children if it’s just for money.”

Ryan Williams, who worked on Mitt Romney’s presidential campaigns, said he’s happy working for a consulting firm, where he’s involved with various other elections across the country, as well as with corporate clients.

“When you sign up for a campaign, you’re putting your name on the effort. Some of the things that Trump has said publicly are very hard for people to get behind,” Williams said.

 

[Dr Transport]

I don't think he was elected only because he was black and re-elected only because he was black, I guess that is what you are saying.

If memory serves me correctly, the Democratic and Liberal establishment implied very heavily that if you didn't vote for Obama you were a racist...matter a fact, friend of mine pretty much told me that in polite conversation.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

If memory serves me correctly, the Democratic and Liberal establishment implied very heavily that if you didn't vote for Obama you were a racist...matter a fact, friend of mine pretty much told me that in polite conversation.

Yes, the same reason that Jesse Jackson got elected President...

I remember clearly the first time I saw Obama. He was on Meet the Press before he ran. I remember thinking "I want THIS guy to be President" but assumed it would never happen because he's black. I almost didn't support him because he's black - I didn't think he had a chance.

Late edit: ACK! Sitting here listening to the Republican pundits, and people like Jan Brewer, makes me crazy. They are trying to tell me that Trump didn't say what I heard with my own ears... a number of times. For example, "He's Mexican. I'm building a wall. He's Mexican. I'm building a wall.. He's Mexican. I'm building a wall" It doesn't get any more clear than that.

 

[OmCheeto]

Yes, the same reason that Jesse Jackson got elected President...

Did you forget about Shirley Chisholm? Not only were we racists, we were also misogynistic pigs!
hmmm... I would have been 13 in 1972. Not old enough to vote I guess.
Who did all the old people elect that year? (google, google, google)
Tricky Dick...

I remember clearly the first time I saw Obama. He was on Meet the Press before he ran. I remember thinking "I want THIS guy to be President" but assumed it would never happen because he's black. I almost didn't support him because he's black - I didn't think he had a chance.

I didn't think he had a chance either.
About the only thing I don't like about him, has been his misuse of military drones.
I always thought he should have directed them toward Congress.

 

[jim hardy]

I always thought he should have directed them toward Congress.

When either party calls asking for money i tell them
"You guys gave Hank Paulson half a billion bucks tax free. Then you bailed out his Wall Street buddies for him .They can darn well cover my tab. "

Of course Paulson supports Hillary. Goldman owns her.
http://www.businessinsider.com/hill...king-fees-cnn-town-hall-bernie-sanders-2016-2

During a CNN town-hall event Wednesday night, moderator Anderson Cooper asked Clinton whether she had used poor judgment by accepting $675,000 from Goldman Sachs for three speeches. The Democratic presidential front-runner said she was simply following the footsteps of past secretaries of state.

"I don’t know. That's what they offered," she said. "Every secretary of state that I know has done that."

Small wonder they're all campaigning against Trump. Trump would have told them to file bankruptcy.. And prosecuted them for selling fraudulent securities.

old jim

 

[OmCheeto]

When either party calls asking for money i tell them
"You guys gave Hank Paulson...

skreeeeeech!

Hank? The bigger problem, IMHO, is with a system that made his namesake brother John, TEN BILLION DOLLARS!

hmmm...

Anyone know which of the candidates is in favor of Wall Street gambling/market manipulation reform? I might vote for Trump, if he is.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Wow, George Will has left the Republican Party.

Washington (CNN)George Will, the conservative commentator and columnist, said Sunday that he changed his voter registration to "unaffiliated" 23 days ago and has left the Republican Party because of Donald Trump.

"After Trump went after the 'Mexican' judge from northern Indiana then (House Speaker) Paul Ryan endorsed him, I decided that in fact this was not my party anymore," Will said on "Fox News Sunday."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/25/politics/george-will-donald-trump-leaving-republican-party-election/