Bridge collapses in Washington state

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the recent collapse of a bridge along Interstate-5 in Washington State, exploring various aspects such as the causes of the collapse, the state of bridge maintenance in the US, and comparisons to other bridge failures. Participants share personal recollections, raise questions about infrastructure management, and discuss the implications of design and maintenance issues.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants recall previous bridge collapses, such as those in Minneapolis and Montreal, expressing concern over the safety of infrastructure.
  • Questions are raised regarding the maintenance state of bridges in the US, with some suggesting that neglect is due to economic factors.
  • Others argue that the root causes of bridge deterioration are related to local governance issues rather than the economy.
  • A participant explains that highway and bridge maintenance funding primarily comes from gasoline taxes, which are not indexed to inflation and have not increased significantly in years.
  • Details are shared about the specific incident, including a witness account of an oversized truck hitting the bridge, which may have contributed to the collapse.
  • Some participants discuss the classification of the bridge as "functionally obsolete," indicating it was not designed to handle current traffic demands.
  • There is mention of the bridge's "fracture critical" design, which could lead to collapse if any single part fails.
  • Concerns are raised about the adequacy of inspections and the potential for unseen structural deficiencies due to age.
  • Participants debate the responsibility of the truck driver and the trucking company regarding route planning and height clearance permits.
  • Some express skepticism about whether a vehicle collision alone could cause such a collapse without pre-existing structural issues.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the causes of the bridge collapse, with no clear consensus on whether negligence, design flaws, or maintenance issues are to blame. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the primary factors contributing to the incident.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the bridge's design and maintenance history may play significant roles in its failure, but there are unresolved questions about the adequacy of inspections and the impact of age on structural integrity.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those concerned with civil engineering, infrastructure safety, transportation policy, and historical comparisons of bridge failures.

  • #31
lisab said:
According to local radio, when the state gives clearance it just means "You have permission to drive that oversize vehicle on our roads." It's ultimately the driver's responsibility to determine a safe route. As I pointed out in an earlier post, he was too close to his pilot car to do anything after he (presumably) saw the safety antenna hit the girder. A simple lane change would have avoided the hazard.
I read that he couldn't change lanes because another truck had blocked him.

The larger trucking companies have people that do the routes and authorizations for the drivers, so it wouldn't have been up to the driver to determine.
 
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  • #32
it hit the corner. Poor guy sure needed to be just a little further over...


source: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2013/05/24/2609664/skagit-river-bridge-collapse.html
 
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  • #33
jim hardy said:
...

I like designs where rather than hold Mother Nature at bay, the engineers enlist her aid.

+1. Or, at least use a redundant design when going against.
 
  • #34
russ_watters said:
Understood, yes, the stimulus funds for infrastructure were in general not used for heavy infrastructure projects. One reason is that the money was supposed to be spent quickly, and there really aren't many unfunded "shovel ready" projects. It takes years and costs millions of dollars to design a bridge and it isn't like there are a stack of designed and approved bridge plans laying around ready to execute.

So much of the funding was spent on easy to execute maintenance things such as re-paving roads that didn't really need to be repaved (I saw several in my area).

That wasn't really my point though; my point was just that are issues aren't because of the recent economic issues, they are because of long-term "neglect". (I put "neglect" in quotes because I think the problems while worthy of attention are somewhat overblown.)


I think a big part of the problem is that too often infrastructure spending itself is viewed through the lens of short term stimulus and pork barrel pet projects, when in reality it's just basic stuff that generally needs to be maintained regularly and after a while rebuilt. So we end up with the kind of waste you describe that largely doesn't address the core problems while our bridges collapse.
 
  • #35
aquitaine said:
I think a big part of the problem is that too often infrastructure spending itself is viewed through the lens of short term stimulus and pork barrel pet projects, when in reality it's just basic stuff that generally needs to be maintained regularly and after a while rebuilt. So we end up with the kind of waste you describe that largely doesn't address the core problems while our bridges collapse.

We build in 'core problems' by choosing what's cheapest to build now instead of picking lowest "Life Cycle Cost" .

A thousand years from now they might use that concrete bridge in another Volkswagen commercial.

(picture courtesy of http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2002-02/round-reason)

Core problem is our "Throw-Away" mentality, imho. It's incompatible with maintenance.
 
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  • #36
jim hardy said:
Core problem is our "Throw-Away" mentality, imho. It's incompatible with maintenance.

Bah! The core problem is not enough workers who know how to handle a hot glue guns.

Cracks in Sellwood Bridge fixed … with glue
Ref

-----------------------
hmmmm... I wonder if it's possible to preemptively ban me from bridge related threads?
 

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