Buffer Action and Titration: Does the Process Ever End?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the titration of a weak acid (H2A2+) with a strong base (NaOH) and the implications for buffer action and acid concentration. Participants explore the concepts of total concentration versus equilibrium concentration in the context of acid-base reactions and the effects of titration on these concentrations.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that during the titration of H2A2+ with NaOH, a buffer forms and questions whether the process ever ends, suggesting that the acid concentration remains largely unchanged due to equilibrium.
  • Another participant cautions about the terminology used, distinguishing between analytical concentration, equilibrium concentration, and the concentration of dissociated H+, asserting that the statement about acid concentration remaining unchanged is not accurate.
  • A third participant references a problem they were solving, indicating that their teacher claimed the concentration of acid remains the same, while also discussing the hydrolysis of sodium acetate during titration with NaOH.
  • One participant challenges the application of Le Chatelier's principle, noting that while it suggests a shift in equilibrium, it does not imply that the concentration of the acid remains constant as pH changes.
  • Another participant clarifies that they are referring to total concentration of acid rather than equilibrium concentration, acknowledging that while total concentration may not change, the concentration of the acid (HA) decreases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions of acid concentration and the implications of titration on these concentrations. There is no consensus on whether the concentration of acid remains unchanged during the titration process, highlighting a lack of agreement on the interpretation of the concepts involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of distinguishing between total concentration and equilibrium concentration, as well as the effects of titrant volume on these concentrations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these distinctions on the behavior of the acid during titration.

Titan97
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If H2A2+ is being titrated with NaOH, a buffer forms.
The processes taking place are equilibrium between H2A2+ and HA+ ions, autoprotolysis of water and reaction of OH- ions with H2A2+ ions. As NaOH is added, the concentration of acid tends to decrease but because of the equilibrium
##H_2A^{2+} <=> HA^+ + H^+##, the decrease in concentration of acid is negligible.
Adding NaOH increases the amount of conjugate base which in turn increases the concentration of acid. Does this process never end? Whatever NaOH you add, the reacted Acid will form back.
 
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Be very, very careful about your wording.

There is a total concentration of all forms produced during the acid dissociation - so called "analytical concentration". We often speak about this kind of concentration even in solutions that don't - technically - contain an acid (like Na3PO4).

Then, there are equilibrium concentration of all forms, of those some (H3A, H2A+, HA2-) are acids (produce H+ during dissociation).

Finally, there is concentration of dissociated H+, which defines how acidic the solution is.

So, which of those you mean here:

Titan97 said:
Whatever NaOH you add, the reacted Acid will form back.

(And no, as stated, this is not true, when you add NaOH to the solution concentrations of all acidic forms - H+, H3A, H2A+, HA2- - decrease).
 
The last sentence answers my query. I was actually solving a problem : https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/titration-of-amino-acid-with-strong-base.831012/
There, my teacher told me that the concentration of acid at any point remains the same. Maybe you have seen it.
If I take sodium acetate and titrate it slowly with NaOH, NaOH reacts with acetic acid formed by hydrolysis of sodium acetate. This decreases concentration of acid.
But according to Le Chatelier principle, as acid decreases, more acetate ions get hydrolysed to form acid. So the concentration of acid remains unchanged while concentration of salt will change.
 
Titan97 said:
according to Le Chatelier principle, as acid decreases, more acetate ions get hydrolysed to form acid

Not exactly. Le Chatelier's principle tells you what general direction of the shift to expect, but not what the exact change will be. When you add base, acids get neutralized and pH goes always up. It is pretty easy to show that for each acid and conjugate base pair ratio of concentrations is

\frac {[HA]}{[A^-]} = 10^{pK_a-pH}

so if the pH changes concentration of the acid (HA in this case) doesn't stay constant.

But it is all the time not clear to me what you (and your teacher) mean by "acid" in this context. Total concentration? Equilibrium concentration? As long as the volume of titrant added is negligible, total concentration of the acid doesn't change, but equilibrium concentrations do change.
 
Borek said:
But it is all the time not clear to me what you (and your teacher) mean by "acid" in this context. Total concentration? Equilibrium concentration? As long as the volume of titrant added is negligible, total concentration of the acid doesn't change, but equilibrium concentrations do change.
I mean total concentration of acid and not equilibrium concentration.
 
So the total doesn't change, but the concentration of HA goes down.
 

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