Bush set to relax rules protecting species

[Evo]

This is so wrong, IMO.

Animals and plants in danger of becoming extinct could lose the protection of government experts who make sure that dams, highways and other projects don't pose a threat, under a regulation the Bush administration is set to put in place before President-elect Obama can reverse them.

The rules must be published Friday to take effect before Obama is sworn in Jan. 20. Otherwise, he can undo them with the stroke of a pen.

The Interior Department rushed to complete the rules in three months over the objections of lawmakers and environmentalists who argued that they would weaken how a landmark conservation law is applied.

The latest version has changed little from the original proposal, despite the more than 250,000 comments received since the change was first proposed in August, according to a Nov. 12 copy obtained late Wednesday by The Associated Press.

The rules eliminate the input of federal wildlife scientists in some endangered species cases, allowing the federal agency in charge of building, authorizing or funding a project to determine for itself it is likely to harm endangered wildlife and plants.

Current regulations require wildlife biologists to sign off on these decisions before a project can go forward, at times modifying the design to better protect species.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081120/ap_ca/bush_endangered_species

 

[lisab]

To put it tactfully, this administration is not friendly to science. But to read this line of that article:

The rules eliminate the input of federal wildlife scientists in some endangered species cases...

That says it all, doesn't it? I'ts just stunning, really. Wow.

 

[binzing]

Ugh...no offense, but those of his generation, thanks for NOTHING, my generations got a LOT to do...

 

[WarPhalange]

Ugh...no offense, but those of his generation, thanks for NOTHING, my generations got a LOT to do...

Yeah, seriously.

I still don't get the people who say history will vindicate Bush. I predict he will become a cuss word in the future, such as "Holy Bush!" or "Awww Bush, someone slashed my tires!"

 

[turbo]

We humans have slaughtered a LOT of species to near-extinction in the US. There are people here in Maine that resist protection of lynxes, wolves, and other species for their own reasons, and that are politically powerful. These highly-motivated people hammer our law-makers while the average people, more concerned about heating oil prices, property taxes, etc, are blissfully unaware of the stuff going on in the back rooms.

 

[russ_watters]

We humans have slaughtered a LOT of species to near-extinction in the US.

And lots also go extinct on their own. Could someone please provide me with a logical argument as to why we should be protecting endangered species?

 

[turbo]

And lots also go extinct on their own. Could someone please provide me with a logical argument as to why we should be protecting endangered species?

Usually, in the case of game species, the protection is a ban on hunting them. This is the case in Maine with the Canada Lynx, which have a breeding population in some areas, but which are declining rapidly.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

My aunt, who is a botanist, is irate over this. She says most gov agencies don't have the people with the right expertise to make a good decision. Will lead to further abuse of our environment.

 

[turbo]

My aunt, who is a botanist, is irate over this. She says most gov agencies don't have the people with the right expertise to make a good decision. Will lead to further abuse of our environment.

Some of our medicines cannot be synthesized and must be extracted from specific parts of plants. We don't know the potential of the plants and animals that we share the Earth with, and it reckless to allow their destruction.

 

[Proton Soup]

someone should protect red squirrels from turbo

 

[WarPhalange]

And lots also go extinct on their own. Could someone please provide me with a logical argument as to why we should be protecting endangered species?

Learning about them can teach us more about ourselves and life in general. It's kind of hard to learn about a type of animal if there are only 5 of them left.

Not to mention, only having cows, pigs, and chicken would be very boring.

 

[Evo]

Diverting a road around the habitat of an endangered species is not too much to ask. You have to understand the impact of what the extiction of one species will have on other species. The environmental consequences of a dam, as the Chinese realized the importance of too late, can have dire consequences on the environment.

I don't think having the people in charge of laying roads and building dams as the only say in the decision is a smart move.

 

[leopard]

I don't think we should protect species just because they are cute. The panda for instance, gets a lot more support than other animals just because it's got big, cute eyes.

I think, however, that we should protect species that we humans have put in danger ourselves. If putting them in zoos temporarily is the only way, we should do that. But generally I'm against both zoos and imprisonment of animals.

 

[mgb_phys]

I don't think we should protect species just because they are cute. The panda for instance, gets a lot more support than other animals just because it's got big, cute eyes.

I iknow they aren't cute and many people regard them as a pest and think they do a lot of damage to the environment but republicans need protection - they are dying out even in their native alaska.

I think, however, that we should protect species that we humans have put in danger ourselves. If putting them in zoos temporarily is the only way, we should do that. But generally I'm against both zoos and imprisonment of animals.

i don't think captive breeding programs in zoos have worked. Although breeding in cheap motels is effective for TV evangelists.

 

[turbo]

someone should protect red squirrels from turbo

Red squirrels need no protection. They are the devil incarnate. They drive off gray squirrels 3x their size, and they relentlessly attack my chipmunks. Life is better without them.

 

[Proton Soup]

I iknow many people regard them as a pest and think they do a lot of damage to the environment but republicans need protection - they are dying out even in their native alaska.

that's not true, the Palins are demonstrably fertile.

funny tho, it was just recently that the liberal was declared endangered, with their 1 or no child marriages.

 

[turbo]

i don't think captive breeding programs in zoos have worked. Although breeding in cheap motels is effective for TV evangelists.

The type of breeding that some TV evangelists and GOP congressmen have engaged in is pretty much guaranteed to preclude procreation.

 

[Proton Soup]

Red squirrels need no protection. They are the devil incarnate. They drive off gray squirrels 3x their size, and they relentlessly attack my chipmunks. Life is better without them.

not around mississippi and alabama, they aren't. i remember going squirrel hunting with my dad, and him telling me about the red squirrels, but we couldn't find any. i can't remember what is supposed to have happened to them, though. marauding bands of Maine hippies, no doubt.

 

[JasonRox]

And lots also go extinct on their own. Could someone please provide me with a logical argument as to why we should be protecting endangered species?

You're a Republican, aren't you? turbo-1 just gave a good reason.

But I guess if you're Republican, {economy} > {everything}-{economy}.

 

[leopard]

Not all republicans are like that.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

And lots also go extinct on their own. Could someone please provide me with a logical argument as to why we should be protecting endangered species?

This is an elementary introduction to the principle of species preservation. Google is your friend.
http://www.fws.gov/Endangered/pdfs/Why_Save_End_Species_July_2005.pdf

 

[leopard]

The best for this planet would be if humans went extinct.

 

[Evo]

Thought I'd move this to P&WA.

 

[OAQfirst]

This is an elementary introduction to the principle of species preservation. Google is your friend.
http://www.fws.gov/Endangered/pdfs/Why_Save_End_Species_July_2005.pdf

From that file:

No one knows how the extinction of organisms will affect the other members of its ecosystem, but the removal of a single species can set off a chain reaction affecting many others. This is especially true for “keystone” species, whose loss can transform or undermine the ecological processes or fundamentally change the species composition of the wildlife community.

I'd have to wonder about the stresses put on those other species thus affected by the loss of another. Does anyone know if a decent range of research has been conducted on that?

 

[LowlyPion]

The best for this planet would be if humans went extinct.

In the scheme of things, the planet is apparently going extinct anyway.

 

[turbo]

I'd have to wonder about the stresses put on those other species thus affected by the loss of another. Does anyone know if a decent range of research has been conducted on that?

There had been some work done on just that on an island "lab". Isle Royale has a population of moose and wolves. The warmer weather of the past few years has resulted in an explosion in the tick population and the moose are heavily infested. Toward the spring, when the moose are at their weakest, the female ticks start gorging on blood in preparation for their own reproductive cycles, weakening them further and outright killing them in some cases. The moose population has suffered, and as a result, the wolf population is in decline.

 

[OAQfirst]

Thanks, Turbo. Looking up Isle Royale led me to the wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolves_and_Moose_on_Isle_Royale

and a dedicated site:

http://www.isleroyalewolf.org/wolfhome/home.html

Very interesting. Apparently there is also a documentary movie as described at http://www.fortunatewilderness.com/ - I hope to see the vid soon.

 

[LowlyPion]

Bush set to relax rules protecting species

And just at a time when Republicans are looking like they are becoming an endangered species too.

 

[chemisttree]

The Bush administration is finalizing changes to the Endangered Species Act that would ensure that federal agencies would not have to take global warming into account when assessing risks to imperiled plants and animals.

The proposed rule changes, which were obtained by The Washington Post, are under review by the Office of Management and Budget and are close to being published in the Federal Register.

The main purpose of the new regulations, which were first unveiled in August, is to eliminate a long-standing provision of the Endangered Species Act that requires an independent scientific review by either the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service or the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration of any federal project that could affect a protected species. Under the administration's proposal, individual agencies could decide on their own whether a project would harm an imperiled species.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/20/AR2008112003465.html

Apparently the new rule is written to prevent the global warming nuts from devastating our economy by forcing us to curb greenhouse gas emissions because some polar bear has less ice to walk on...

 

[turbo]

Thanks, Turbo. Looking up Isle Royale led me to the wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolves_and_Moose_on_Isle_Royale

and a dedicated site:

http://www.isleroyalewolf.org/wolfhome/home.html

Very interesting. Apparently there is also a documentary movie as described at http://www.fortunatewilderness.com/ - I hope to see the vid soon.

You're welcome. I was tipped to this by my wife's uncle. He's a sharp old fellow. He loves nature and he reads voraciously. He thought I might like to know about that because he found it interesting that small parasites like ticks can weaken and kill huge animals like moose, and that the loss of a significant portion of the prey population can kill off predators. The island is a closed system in the sense that animals neither arrive nor leave except by birth and death, making population studies easier to conduct and interpret.

 

[LowlyPion]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/20/AR2008112003465.html

Apparently the new rule is written to prevent the global warming nuts from devastating our economy by forcing us to curb greenhouse gas emissions because some polar bear has less ice to walk on...

Actually these rules can likely be set aside by the next Congress.

As to ruining the economy, the Republicans have plenty of experience with that it seems. I guess they don't want others to horn in on their specialty?

 

[chemisttree]

Even better, the rule states that the agency is not required to consult (it doesn't forbid it) and refers to the effects manifested only through global processes. Pretty much a direct reference to global warming being specifically excluded.

The rule states: "Federal agencies are not required to consult on an action when . . . the effects of such action are manifested only through global processes and (i) cannot be reliably predicted or measured at the local scale, or (ii) would result at most in an extremely small, insignificant local impact, or (iii) are such that the potential risk of harm to species or habitat are remote."

 

[LowlyPion]

Even better, the rule states that the agency is not required to consult (it doesn't forbid it) and refers to the effects manifested only through global processes. Pretty much a direct reference to global warming being specifically excluded.

Not to worry. These kind of fascist maneuvers by the Bush-Cheney team in the last spasms of exercising their vindictive power will likely be rooted out.

Change is coming. And the stale air in Washington is being sent on its way to the bridge to nowhere.

I suspect that in the end these kinds of thing are at heart merely posturing and playing to their dwindling base.