BYD's All-Electric e6: Will It Be A Game Changer In The U.S. Market?

[mgb_phys]

The source of the grid power? How does one determine that, other than to average all sources (coal, wind, nuclear,...)?

I assume an average, don't know if it's all-eu or per-country. It's an interesting statistic though at 60g/km the electric Smart is only about 30% better than the diesel version.

Also, I thought part of the reason for allowing only zero emission vehicles into, say London during the day, was to cut on the downtown toxic emissions - SOx, NOx and particulates. The EV zeros those emissions in the city while the diesel never will.

it's mostly congestion, there are discounts for electric vehicles but given the small number of the it's mostly just green-washing.
Since ultra-low sulphur diesel and some new buses the traffic pollution has improved - it's now less than a city like Vancouver, it helps that photo-chemical smog isn't usually a big problem in the UK!

The big carrot and stick is that gas+diesel is around $8/gal and road tax is linked to the CO2 emmissions, so it's free for a diesel Smart up to around $500/year for a large SUV

 

[OmCheeto]

I was at about mile marker 220 in Oregon heading south doing about 70mph when a Smart car with California plates PASSED me. Since no one lives in the northern 200mi of Cali, this lady was probably looking at another 500mi in that little thing. Wonder if she could maintain 75mph over the Syskiyous?

One of these days, you are going to be passed by one of http://www.commutercars.com/performance.html" :

Funniest moment at the NEDRA was when this car beat a big block in the quarter mile. The announcer said: "That poor guy. He's going to have to go home tonight, and tell his friends, that he got beat, by a fish."

Not quite as pretty as the 5 Tesla's that drove down from Seattle.

But damn, that car(?) appeared to have violated all of the laws of physics.

 

[mheslep]

I assume an average, don't know if it's all-eu or per-country. It's an interesting statistic though at 60g/km the electric Smart is only about 30% better than the diesel version...

If we believe the average statistic. In the future with new nuclear and wind efforts the EV CO2 figure can continue to drop substantially. No so that diesel. And its all imported (or does the UK have some North Sea shares?).

Edit: 60g/km checks out. I have 953g CO2 / kWh generated from coal (EPA), and you have the Smart EV at https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=2315313&postcount=112", or 114 grams CO2/km if the grid were 100% coal based.

 

[mgb_phys]

If we believe the average statistic. In the future with new nuclear and wind efforts the EV CO2 figure can continue to drop substantially.

And a beneficial cycle, as the batteries and motor gets more efficient they use less electricity and hopefully nuclear and wind (probably not solar in the UK!) will increase.

No so that diesel. And its all imported (or does the UK have some North Sea shares?).

The UK is roughly self sufficent in oil and gas - for now at least.

60g/km checks out. I have 953g CO2 / kWh generated from coal (EPA), and you have the Smart EV at 8.4km/kWh[/URL], or 114 grams CO2/km if the grid were 100% coal based.

The UK is about 40% Methane, 35% Coal, 20% nuclear and a bit of hydro.

 

[mheslep]

The UK is roughly self sufficent in oil and gas - for now at least.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/United_Kingdom/images/image010.gif
Wow, _just_ for now.

Consumption has been nearly constant for two decades? That's amazing.

 

[Moonbear]

I've seen a few Smart cars around here, even, but am not expecting to see them on the roads come winter. If I still lived in NJ, and all my commutes were on relatively flat, well-maintained roads, I'd give something like that a consideration, especially since the ability to squeeze a teeny car into a teeny space for parallel parking would be quite an advantage on city streets. Unfortunately, even my previously beloved little Focus wouldn't handle the roads around here. Not at all an issue in the summer, other than a slightly larger engine means I can get up the hills at about the speed limit instead of 10 mph below it, but in winter, having AWD and a slightly heavier car is the difference between getting home or being stranded halfway up a mountain or in a ditch. I'm getting to the point where I have enough lectures recorded that I could stay home on snow days and offer my students a pre-recorded lecture instead (so they can stay home too), but when the snow starts while I'm already at work, I really do prefer being able to get home again.

If I had a spouse and could share a vehicle on bad weather days, I'd certainly consider these little, more economic cars as a second car for daily commuting, but I really can't justify to myself owning two cars for one person just so I can have a good weather and bad weather car.

 

[mgb_phys]

I once had to drive from Thunder Bay (Canada) in the middle of winter - and the only thing the car hire place had left was PT cruisers.
They also sold Smarts and you got a free set of winter tires! Apparently they aren't bad, they are fairly light and the engine is over the front wheels so you get decent grip.

The electric ones could be better day-day, the problem with Smarts I have driven is that being very light but tall (very high seating position) you have to fight any cross wind at freeway speeds. So if the battery adds a lot of underfloor weight it could be a good thing.

 

[Moonbear]

The problem here is the mountains. I never had any problem driving in MI, no matter what the road conditions were. Anything from ice to 18 inches of snow, I managed to get to the lab with my old Ford Tempo. But the roads were flat. Here, the smaller cars struggle just with the incline alone, on a good day, so when you add snow or ice, they just can't make it to the top. Believe me, I wish they would. I didn't want to give up my Focus, that was one of my favorite cars ever. It got good mileage, had good pep, and had rear seats that dropped down to expand the cargo capacity of the trunk.

Fighting crosswinds is a big problem for light cars in places where icy roads are common. In some of the Canadian provinces, too light of a car is going to wind up stranded in a ditch, simply because it will get blown off the road by the wind. I'd worry about the same problem in the US in some places (not an issue everywhere, so it's very dependent on where you plan to use the car...not too many people plan cross-country vacations in winter anyway). When I drove my coworker's Prius in OH, I could tell that wind was a problem for that car. I don't have problems with wind where I live now, but when I lived in OH, wind across the very flat land in some parts was noticeable when driving. It was a struggle for a Prius to hang on in wind. I think a Smart car might have even more problems with wind. Where I am now, I'd worry more about it becoming a very efficient snow ski! Just to note, vehicles on the other end of the spectrum don't do well here either. One of my friends wrecked his pick-up truck last year because once the road got too icy even for 4WD to help, it was a very heavy weight to slide downhill into a building. An SUV probably would have just rolled over. It's the middle-sized cars with all-wheel drive that seem to be surviving winters the best around here. Nothing too tall, nothing too heavy, nothing too light.

 

[OmCheeto]

I once had to drive from Thunder Bay (Canada) in the middle of winter - and the only thing the car hire place had left was PT cruisers.
They also sold Smarts and you got a free set of winter tires! Apparently they aren't bad, they are fairly light and the engine is over the front wheels so you get decent grip.

The electric ones could be better day-day, the problem with Smarts I have driven is that being very light but tall (very high seating position) you have to fight any cross wind at freeway speeds. So if the battery adds a lot of underfloor weight it could be a good thing.

hmm... I'd have thought I'd have to explain the Smart's only to an American...

They were designed as urban vehicles.

Why the hell are people taking them on the freeway? That's what Corvette's are for.

 

[Mech_Engineer]

They also sold Smarts and you got a free set of winter tires! Apparently they aren't bad, they are fairly light and the engine is over the front wheels so you get decent grip.

A Smart ForTwo is a rear engine rear wheel drive layout, sounds like the "salesman" fed you a line. Having a good amount of experience in snowy poor driving conditions, I would NOT want to drive a Smart in a snowstorm, snow tires or not.

Front-wheel drive cars do pretty well in snowy conditions however, especially with traction control and snow tires.

 

[OmCheeto]

A Smart ForTwo is a rear engine rear wheel drive layout, sounds like the "salesman" fed you a line. Having a good amount of experience in snowy poor driving conditions, I would NOT want to drive a Smart in a snowstorm, snow tires or not.

Front-wheel drive cars do pretty well in snowy conditions however, especially with traction control and snow tires.

Perhaps you should consider a rear wheel drive Tango. With http://www.commutercars.com/specs.html" of the weight in back, they make pretty good little snow plows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uhGCLnAPG88&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uhGCLnAPG88&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

Quite the steal at only http://www.commutercars.com/TangoOrderForm.pdf" .

 

[mgb_phys]

A Smart ForTwo is a rear engine rear wheel drive layout, sounds like the "salesman" fed you a line. Having a good amount of experience in snowy poor driving conditions, I would NOT want to drive a Smart in a snowstorm, snow tires or not.

It wasn't much fun driving 400km in snow in a PT cruiser either!

Front-wheel drive cars do pretty well in snowy conditions however, especially with traction control and snow tires.

My VW Golf always struggled with snow+hill but it was so old that it probably only had half the rated power.
My new Subaru though is amazing I live at the top of a very steep hill in Canada. When it snows only me and a neighbour's Jeep Wrangler get home everytime.
I don't know how you make all the wheels on a fancy SUV spin but the people here seem to manage it.

 

[mheslep]

BYD (China) is going ahead with an electric sedan roll out in the US next year, though not mass market. Like the Volt, BYD's car is also too expensive. Sounds like it will also have a ~100 mile range.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125085247014949083.html?mod=wsjcrmain

XIAN, China -- BYD Co., the Chinese auto maker part-owned by Warren Buffett's company, is finalizing plans for an all-electric battery car that would be sold in the U.S. next year, ahead of the original schedule, Chairman Wang Chuanfu said.
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Mr. Wang said the company plans to pick a specific region within the U.S. and initially market "a few hundred" e6s, priced at slightly more than $40,000, through a small number of dealers. "In the beginning, our target customers are going to be government agencies, utilities and maybe some celebrities," Mr. Wang said. He added that BYD hopes to enter Europe with a similar strategy in 2011 or later.
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One source of Mr. Wang's confidence in attacking the U.S. car market is BYD's ties with MidAmerican Energy Holding Co., the unit of Mr. Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Inc. that paid about $230 million for a 9.9% stake in BYD.

The BYD e6 is a five-seat electric-powered passenger car. The company says it takes about seven to nine hours to fully charge when plugged into a regular home outlet. BYD already sells a plug-in hybrid car with a small gasoline engine to charge batteries that is called the F3DM
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