Calcluating the Hubble Radius for an open universe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the Hubble Radius for an open, dust-filled universe using the Friedmann Equation. Participants explore the mathematical derivation and seek clarification on the relationships between various parameters, including the scale factor and the Hubble parameter.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a parametric form of the Friedmann Equation and attempts to derive the Hubble Radius, expressing uncertainty about the correctness of their solution.
  • Another participant points out a potential error in the integration step, noting that x and t are not independent variables, which complicates the integration process.
  • A suggestion is made to use a specific integral form to relate the functions of x and t, indicating a possible approach to find the scale factor a.
  • Further discussion reveals that integrating da/dt may not be productive since the scale factor a(x) is already known, leading to a realization of a mistake in the earlier reasoning.
  • Participants discuss the relationship between hyperbolic functions and the derivation of the Hubble Radius, with one noting a correction regarding the hyperbolic cotangent function.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correctness of the initial derivation and the integration steps. There is no consensus on a definitive solution for calculating the Hubble Radius, and multiple approaches are being considered.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding of the relationships between the variables involved, particularly the dependence of x and t, and the implications for integration. Some mathematical steps remain unresolved.

CharlesB
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Given the following parametric form of the Friedmann Equation for an open, dust-filled (matter-dominated) universe:
[tex]a(x)={a_0 \Omega \over 2(1-\Omega)}(cosh(x)-1)[/tex]

[tex]t(x)={\Omega \over 2 H_0 (1- \Omega)^{3/2}}(sinh(x)-x)[/tex]

I am trying to calculate the Hubble Radius, R=c/H(t) where H(t)=(da/dt)/a and have come up with the following solution:

[tex]{da \over dt} = {da \over dx} {dx \over dt}[/tex]

[tex]{da \over dx}={a_0 \Omega \over 2(1-\Omega)}sinh(x)[/tex]

[tex]{dt \over dx}={\Omega \over 2H(1- \Omega)^{3/2}}(cosh(x)-1)[/tex]

[tex]{da \over dt}=Ha_0(1-\Omega)^{1/2}coth({x \over 2})[/tex]

Integrate to find a:

[tex]a=Ha_0(1-\Omega)^{1/2}coth({x \over 2})t[/tex]

[tex]{{da \over dt} \over a}={1 \over t}[/tex]

Therefore, the Hubble Radius:

[tex]R_H={c a \over ({da \over dt})}=ct[/tex]

I just can't seem to find any references to this solution, so I don't know if it is actually correct.
Can anyone confirm?
 
Last edited:
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Could you please enclose the latex in [noparse][tex][/tex][/noparse] tags?

e.g.

[noparse][tex]{dy \over dx} = x[/tex][/noparse]
 
Chalnoth said:
Could you please enclose the latex in [noparse][tex][/tex][/noparse] tags?

e.g.

[noparse][tex]{dy \over dx} = x[/tex][/noparse]

Sorry, fixed now.
 
CharlesB said:
Sorry, fixed now.
Thanks!

Unfortunately, I don't think it's correct. The step after "Integrate to find a:" appears to be wrong. Basically, x and t are not independent variables, so you can't integrate a function which includes x over t without first substituting x as a function of t.

Edit: Looks like a potential solution may be:

[tex]\int f(x)dt = \int {f(x) \over {dx \over dt} } {dx \over dt} dt = \int {f(x) \over {dx \over dt} } dx[/tex]
 
Last edited:
Thanks, I thought that might have been the case. Any ideas how to get a solution for a then?
 
CharlesB said:
Thanks, I thought that might have been the case. Any ideas how to get a solution for a then?
Heh, you replied too fast :) I think the edit in my above post may be a way to go.
 
Tricky. Thanks for your help!
 
CharlesB said:
Tricky. Thanks for your help!
Heh, just realized that doesn't actually get you anywhere, because it just gives a(x), which you already have!

I also think I've noticed another mistake, where you say da/dt is proportional to the hyperbolic cotangent. I don't think this is the case, as it looks like you've dropped the -1 in dt/dx.

Anyway, you should be able to get the Hubble radius as a function of x no problem. Getting it as a function of t analytically may not be possible.
 
  • #10
CharlesB said:
Yeah, I realized it was pretty stupid to integrate da/dt since I already had a(x). And I just used WolframAlpha to get coth(x/2), http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=d/dx(cosh(x)-1)*(1/(d/dx(sinh(x)-x))). It's probably just as easy to use sinh(x)/{cosh(x) -1}.

Now to get the particle horizon!
Oh, I see, it's the hyperbolic cotangent of x/2, not x. That makes sense now. For some reason I missed the division by 2 before. Obviously they're using some interesting trigonometric identities to get that answer.
 

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