Calculating Diffusion Velocity in Electrochemical System

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating diffusion velocity in an electrochemical system, specifically focusing on the diffusion motion of ions in relation to concentration gradients and Fick's laws. Participants explore theoretical aspects, mathematical formulations, and implications of diffusion in a steady-state system.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a model for diffusion velocity, suggesting that it varies with concentration and can be expressed in terms of Fick's law.
  • Another participant challenges the concept of 'diffusion linear velocity', questioning its physical meaning and measurement, and emphasizes the need for solving the diffusion equation with appropriate conditions.
  • A different participant attempts to derive a relation for diffusion time, linking it to the diffusion coefficient and suggesting that diffusion velocity can be measured under certain conditions.
  • Another participant discusses the random-walk model of diffusion, relating mean square displacement to time and diffusion coefficient, which adds another perspective to the understanding of diffusion processes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the concept of diffusion velocity and its measurement, with no consensus reached on the terminology or the implications of the proposed models. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the validity of the term 'diffusion linear velocity' and its relevance in the context of Fick's laws.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made regarding the constancy of the diffusion coefficient and the interpretation of diffusion velocity. The discussion also highlights the dependence on initial and boundary conditions for solving the diffusion equation.

ussername
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Let's suppose an electrochemical system with given coordinates:
RaRKQGY.jpg

We are interested in diffusion motion of ion ##i## in the direction of ##y## axis.
Concentration ##c_i## is a function of both ##x## and ##y##. Concentration ##c_i## at ##y=0## is zero.
The system is steady thus ##\frac{\partial c_i}{\partial y}(x)## is not a function of ##y## (##\frac{\partial c_i}{\partial y}(x)## is constant with ##y##).
The first Fick's law for ion ##i## is (for simplicity I don't write ##i## subscript anymore):
$$J_{y}^{dif}(x,y=d) = - D \cdot \frac{\partial c}{\partial y}(x,y=d) = - D \frac{c(x,y=d)}{d}$$
The diffusion molar flux is:
$$J_{y}^{dif}(x,y=d) = c(x,y=d)\cdot v_{y}^{dif}(x,y=d)$$
where ##v^{dif}## is the diffusion linear velocity of ion ##i##:
$$v_{y}^{dif} = -D \cdot \frac{1}{c}\cdot \frac{\partial c}{\partial y}$$
The diffusion velocity clearly changes because concentration changes with ##y##.
Now I can put the diffusion velocity into the first equation and express ##D##:
$$D = \frac{-c(x,y=d)\cdot v_{y}^{dif}(x,y=d)\cdot d}{c(x,y=d)}=-v_{y}^{dif}(x,y=d)\cdot d$$
This seems strange to me. Since both diffusion coefficient ##D## and length ##d## are considered constant, the diffusion velocity ##v_{y}^{dif}(x,y=d)## seems to be constant along ##x## independently of the functions ##c(x) \ at \ y=d## and ##\frac{\partial c}{\partial y}(x) \ at \ y=d##. Is it true?
 

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I strongly object to the term 'diffusion linear velocity'. Diffusion is due to random (Brownian) motion of molecules and other particles so what exactly is moving with 'diffusion linear velocity'? how would you measure it?
It makes no sense.
What you do have is Flick's law and it is a differential equation. Add initial and boundary condition, solve it and you have all the answers.
By the way, the diffusion equation is linear.
 
I found this problem when I was trying to derive the relation for diffusion time of ion ##i##:
$$\tau^{dif} = \frac{d^2}{D}$$
In order to understand what ##\tau^{dif}## really means, it is useful to define ##v^{dif}##.

By the way ##v^{dif}## can be measured no worse than for example molar fluxes of diffusion, migration or convection. It can be measured when the diffusion motion prevails.
 
ussername said:
I found this problem when I was trying to derive the relation for diffusion time of ion ##i##:
$$\tau^{dif} = \frac{d^2}{D}$$

When considering random-walk diffusion (for example in one dimension), the equation
<x 2> = 2 D t
relates the mean square displacement <x 2> of diffusing particles with the elapsed time t. Here it is assumed that the particles start out at position x = 0 at time t = 0.
Roughly speaking, a particle with a diffusion coefficient D diffuses thus a distance d in a time t d 2/2D.
 

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