Calculating Force with Unequal Hand Distances

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the forces applied by two hands on a bar that is subjected to a torque load, particularly when the pivot point is not centered. Participants explore how to determine the necessary forces from each hand given unequal distances from the pivot and the implications of arm strength and lever arms.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if the pivot is at the center, the forces would be equal and can be calculated as magnitude M/d.
  • Another participant argues that due to differences in arm strength, the forces applied by each hand will not necessarily be equal, complicating the calculation.
  • A later reply states that each hand creates its own moment, leading to the equation Ttotal = TLH + TRH = FLHrLH + FRHrRH, indicating that the total torque is the sum of the moments created by each hand.
  • It is noted that a couple consists of two equal and opposite forces separated by a distance, and that the resultant moment from a couple is called torque, which is independent of the reference point.
  • Participants discuss the possibility of stopping the bar with only one hand, depending on the moments created.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the equality of forces applied by each hand, with some acknowledging that arm strength and the nature of the forces complicate the situation. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact calculation of forces when distances are unequal.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding assumptions about arm strength and the effects of unequal distances from the pivot, which may influence the calculations and outcomes discussed.

gomerpyle
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Suppose you had a bar that spinned due to a torque load applied, but the pivot was not centered at exactly the middle of the bar. If you arrested the bar with your hands, obviously you are applying a couple to counter the torque to stop it from moving, but your hands are not at equal distances to where the torque load is. If you know the torque load, and the distance from the pivot to where your hands are, how do calculate the force each hand needs applies? If the pivot as at the center, the forces would be equal and the magnitude M/d. I think I'm over-thinking this...
 
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gomerpyle said:
If the pivot as at the center, the forces would be equal and the magnitude M/d.

You're arms aren't of equal strength so the forces won't necessarily be equal, even if you tried. The fact that one arm will be pushing and one pulling makes it even harder to try to apply equal force, regardless of any difference in lever arm length.
All you can say is that:
Ttotal = TLH + TRH = FLHrLH + FRHrRH
 
+1

and that's true even if the pivot is in the middle.
 
Each hand will create its own moment: ##M_R = F_R r_R## and ##M_L = F_L r_L## and the total moment is ##M = M_R + M_L##. So you could stop the bar with only one hand if you wish.

The difference between a moment and a couple is that the couple have two equal and opposite forces separated by a distance ##d##. So if ##F_R = F_L = F##, then ##M = Fr_R + Fr_L = F(r_R + r_L) = Fd##.

The resultant moment from a couple is called a torque (##Fd##). The torque has the special property of being independent from the reference point. This means that if you create a couple with your hands that produces a torque equivalent to the bar torque, your hands could be on the same side of the bar and it will still stop the bar.

Ref.: Couple (mechanics)
 

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