Calculating forces and torque on a moving dipole in non-uniform magnetic field

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the net force and torque on a moving electric dipole in a non-uniform magnetic field. The original poster expresses uncertainty about how to approach the problem, particularly in taking limits to simplify their expressions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive expressions for force and torque using the velocities of the dipole's charges and the magnetic field. They question how to express their results in a simpler form and seek hints for further progress.
  • Some participants suggest considering the case of a homogeneous magnetic field first and question the validity of taking limits in the context of the problem.
  • Others explore the implications of the dipole's size and the derivative of the magnetic field in the non-homogeneous case.
  • There is discussion about the mathematical correctness of the limits taken in the expressions for force and torque.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights and references to relevant literature. Some guidance has been offered regarding the approach to the problem, but there is no explicit consensus on the correctness of the methods or results presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity introduced by the non-uniformity of the magnetic field and the implications of the dipole's size on the calculations. There is also mention of the need to work with the center of mass of the dipole rather than individual charges.

Gertrude
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Homework Statement


I want to determine the net force and torqe on a moving electric dipole in non-uniform magnetic field.
I suspect I should take some kind of a limit, but I'm not sure how to do so.
Please help, I'd really like to understand this.

Homework Equations


##\mathbf{F} = q \mathbf{v} \times \mathbf{B}, \quad \mathbf{\tau} = \mathbf{r} \times \mathbf{F}, \quad \mathbf{p} = q \mathbf{d}##

The Attempt at a Solution


I wrote the velocities as the average velocity ##\mathbf{v} = (\mathbf{v}_1+\mathbf{v}_2)/2## plus the difference (index 1 indicates the positive charge and 2 the negative charge):
$$\mathbf{F} = q\mathbf{v}_1 \times \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r} + \mathbf{p}/q) - q\mathbf{v}_2 \times \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r})$$
So what I got in the end was:
$$\mathbf{F} = q \mathbf{v} \times (\mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r} + \mathbf{p}/q) - \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r})) + \frac{q}{2} \dot{\mathbf{p}} \times (\mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r} + \mathbf{p}/q) + \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r}))$$
I'm stuck here and I'm not sure how to get a 'nicer' form that would only contain ##\mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r})##.

Regarding the torque:
$$\mathbf{\tau} = \frac{\mathbf{d}}{2} \times \mathbf{F}_1 - \frac{\mathbf{d}}{2} \times \mathbf{F}_2$$
Rearraging a bit I got:
$$\mathbf{\tau} = \frac{\mathbf{p}}{2} \times (\mathbf{v}_1 \times \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r} + \mathbf{p}/q) + \mathbf{v}_2 \times \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r}))$$
From here on I have the same problem as before.

If you can help me with a hint or two I'll be really grateful.
 
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Hello Gertrude, :welcome:

Did you work out the case for the homogeneous ##\mathbf B## field already ?
An electric dipole generally has a small size ##\mathbf d## so I expect the derivative of ##\mathbf B## to appear for the non-homogeneous case (i.e. the limit ##\mathbf d \downarrow 0## seems useful to me.

I would also work with the center of the dipole, not with one of the charges as central point.
 
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Hello, thanks for answering!

As a matter of fact I did compute a net force and torque in uniform magnetic field before. I got:
$$ \mathbf{F} = \dot{\mathbf{p}} \times \mathbf{B}, \quad \mathbf{\tau} = \mathbf{p} \times (\mathbf{v}_C \times \mathbf{B})$$
with ##\mathbf{v}_C## being the velocity of the center of mass ##\mathbf{r}_C = (\mathbf{r}_1 + \mathbf{r}_2)/2##.

Now for the non-uniform case: I can see that in the first summand of the force, I get a derivative (in three dimensions, thus a gradient in the direction of orientation):
$$q \mathbf{v} \times (\mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r} + \mathbf{p}/q) - \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r})) = q \mathbf{v} d \times \frac{(\mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r} + \mathbf{p}/q) - \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r}))}{p/q} => p \mathbf{v} \times (\hat{\mathbf{d}} \cdot \nabla) \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r})$$
and in the second summand I get:
$$\frac{q}{2} \dot{\mathbf{p}} \times (\mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r} + \mathbf{p}/q) + \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r})) => q \dot{\mathbf{p}} \times \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r})$$
I believe ##\mathbf{v}## is the translation velocity of the center of mass. By the way, is it mathematically correct to take such limits as I did (especially the second term, where I had a sum of the fields)?
So I see the force gets one extra term comparing to the uniform case, which seems logical.

In computing the torque I did something similar:
$$\frac{\mathbf{p}}{2} \times (\mathbf{v} \times (\mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r} + \mathbf{p}/q) + \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r})) + \frac{\dot{\mathbf{p}}}{2q} \times (\mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r} + \mathbf{p}/q) - \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r}))) =>$$
$$=> \frac{\mathbf{p}}{2} \times (2\mathbf{v} \times \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r}) + \frac{d}{2q} \dot{\mathbf{p}} \times (\hat{\mathbf{d}} \cdot \nabla) \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r}))$$
Since ##\dot{\mathbf{p}} = q(\mathbf{v}_1- \mathbf{v}_2)## only changes direction, it's always perpendicular on ##\hat{\mathbf{d}}## (and ##\mathbf{p}##) and thus the second term is zero.
So the torque is the same as in uniform case? I didn't expect that.

Am I on the right path of thinking?
 
Last edited:
I should think so (but haven't time to scrutinize all the steps).
Turns out someone did a lot of work already; perhaps this article is a nice starting point ... complicated enough already without inhomogeneity (and they work in gaussian units, too. That's reasonable but an extra complication nevertheless o_O ). Your ## \mathbf{\tau} = \mathbf{p} \times (\mathbf{v}_C \times \mathbf{B}))## looks like their (19a) .
 
I'll surely take a look at that, thank you for your time.
 

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