Calculating pH Change in Buffer After Adding HCl

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of adding HCl to a buffer solution composed of HF and NaF, specifically focusing on how the concentrations of HF and F- change and the implications for [H+] and pH. The conversation includes theoretical considerations and the application of the Henderson-Hasselbalch equation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that adding HCl increases the concentration of HF as F- reacts with H+ to form HF, but they question how this affects [H+].
  • One participant introduces a different perspective by suggesting that HF can be viewed as a diprotic acid, which complicates the analysis of the system.
  • Another participant asserts that the addition of acid will inevitably change the pH, even in the presence of a buffer, but acknowledges that the buffer may mitigate the extent of the change.
  • There is a challenge regarding the assumption that the reaction goes to completion and whether stoichiometric calculations can always be applied in this context.
  • Some participants express confusion about the relationship between the reaction of H+ with the conjugate base and the resulting pH change.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that adding HCl to the buffer will change the pH, but there is disagreement on the mechanisms of this change and the applicability of stoichiometric reasoning in different scenarios. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise relationship between the changes in concentrations and the resulting pH.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their arguments, including the dependence on the strength of the acids and bases involved, the dilution effects, and the assumptions made in applying the Henderson-Hasselbalch equation.

coolia
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If you add HCl to a buffer solution of HF/NaF, the F- will react with H+ to produce HF. THe new pH can be calculated with the henderson-hasselbach equation. My question is, if F- decreases and HF increases, why and how does [H+] change?

HF <> F- + H+

Thank you.
 
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Essentially, the H+ from the strong acid HCl will increase the formal concentration of HF. Some of the salt NaF will be converted to HF...
... but let me be picky for a moment.

Actually, another point of view for hydrofluoric acid is the formula HFFH, a diprotic acid. The first dissociation is HFFH <----> H+ + FFH- ( the whole anion).
The second one is FFH- <----> H+ + FF-2

Please excuse the less than perfect text formatting.
 
I'm sorry, I don't understand how that answers the question. The use of HF/NaF is arbitrary any buffer will do.
 
coolia said:
If you add HCl to a buffer solution of HF/NaF, the F- will react with H+ to produce HF. THe new pH can be calculated with the henderson-hasselbach equation. My question is, if F- decreases and HF increases, why and how does [H+] change?

pH changes because you are adding acid - I hope that's clear and doesn't need further explanation.

Now, in the presence of conjugate base of weak acid, added H+ protonates the base, creating the acid (F- + H+ <-> HF). If acid is weak, base is strong, so the reaction goes (almost) to completion. That in turn means that we can use stoichiometry of that reaction to calculate concentrations of acid and conjugate base using just stoichiometry, and put these values into HH equation.

But - and that's very important but - it doesn't meant every system and always behaves exactly this way. Too weak acid, too strong acid, too high dilution - and assumption that you can stoichiometry stops to work.

See Henderson-Hasselbalch equation and last paragraph on Buffer Maker pH engine page for examples of cases in which this approach doesn't work.
 
You are saying the pH changes by adding acid, but H+ reacts with the conjugate base so there no longer is a pH change. So then how does pH change?
 
What I mean is that if you add acid or base to the solution you disturb the equilibrium, so the pH must change. Presence of the buffer may make the change smaller, but it can't stop it.
 

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