Calculating Protonation of Lysine at pH 9.5

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the percentage of protonation of the epsilon amino groups in lysine at a pH of 9.5, considering the relevant pKa values and the implications of these values on the dissociation constants.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks how to calculate the percentage of protonated epsilon amino groups in lysine at pH 9.5, referencing pKa values of 2.2, 9.0, and 10.5.
  • Another participant provides the formula for the acid dissociation constant and attempts to apply it to the situation.
  • Concerns are raised about the interpretation of the dissociation constant, particularly the difference between Ka and pKa, with one participant asserting that using Ka = 10.5 leads to an excessively large ratio of [A-]/[HA].
  • There is a correction regarding the use of pKa instead of Ka, with a participant recalculating Ka based on the provided pKa value.
  • Further discussion includes the logarithmic nature of the pH scale and how it affects the ratios of protonated and deprotonated forms of the amino group.
  • A participant suggests that understanding the relationship between pH and pKa can aid in estimating protonation percentages without needing exact calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of Ka and pKa, with some confusion about their implications for the calculations. There is no consensus on the correct approach to determine the percentage of protonation, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of understanding the definitions and relationships between pKa and Ka, as well as the implications of pH changes on protonation states. There are unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the calculations presented.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and researchers interested in biochemistry, particularly those studying amino acid behavior in different pH environments.

leopard
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How can I calculate how many percent of the epsilon amino groups in lysine are protonated at pH 9.5?

The pKa values are 2.2, 9.0 and 10.5. I have calculated the pI: 9.75. The epsilon amino is mostly protonated at this value, and also at pH 9.5 I guess.
 
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From the definition of acid dissociation constant:

[tex]K_a = \frac {[H^+][A^-]} {[HA]}[/tex]

you get

[tex]\frac {[A^-]} {[HA]} = \frac {K_a} {[H^+]}[/tex]
 
Ka = 10.5 gives a really big number for [A-]/[HA]
 
leopard said:
Ka = 10.5 gives a really big number for [A-]/[HA]

at pH 9.5?
Really?
Big?
[A-]/[HA]?

Shome mishtake? :biggrin:
 
pH = 9.5 --> [H+] = 3.16E-10

[A-]/[HA] = 10.5/3.16E-10 = 3.32E10
 
I think your deduction is true after all if Ka = 10.5.



But the premise is false: Ka = 10.5 is not what is given - rather pKa = 10.5 !
 
leopard said:
Ka = 10.5 gives a really big number for [A-]/[HA]

Do you know what is a difference between Ka and pKa?

Besides, such large numbers happen quite often, pH scale is logarithmic and covers 14 orders of magnitude, not without a reason.
 
epenguin said:
I think your deduction is true after all if Ka = 10.5.



But the premise is false: Ka = 10.5 is not what is given - rather pKa = 10.5 !

Lol, of course. Then I get Ka = 3.1E10, so that [A-]/[HA] = 1E20. An even larger number. How can I use this to find what percentage has been protonated?
 
pKa is not log Ka.
 
  • #10
- log Ka
 
  • #11
So Ka is not 3.1x1010.
 
  • #12
You will get there faster if you develop a combination of understanding, intuition and rules of thumb, so you will at least have an idea what answer is reasonable and therefore be able to correct your mistakes which then feeds back to better understanding etc.

At the pH equal to the pK the substance is half protonated. Just one pH unit away, the protons have increased or decreased by a factor 10. You wouldn't expect this to have changed [A-] by a factor like 10E20.

In fact one unit below or above the pK [A-]/[HA] has by the equation given by Borek become 10 or 0.1 . Then e.g. A is not exactly 10% or 90% protonated, but it is easy to work out exactly how much.

Another tip, when students come to enzyme kinetics they often do not realize that they are dealing with much the same equations, at least there is considerable overlap, so that a Michaelis saturation curve has exactly the same form as a pH titration curve if you plot v against log .
 
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