Calculating Signal to Noise due to thermal noise

In summary, the conversation discusses the total noise from other sources and thermal noise, denoted as N, and the ratio between the noise levels at two different frequencies. The expression for the ratio includes the unknown variable Nother. If we assume Ntotal is equal to Nthermal, the ratio simplifies to the square root of the ratio of the two frequencies. The conversation also raises questions about the units of N and the term √(2kTRΔf).
  • #1
JoJoQuinoa
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Homework Statement
At t = 275K, the signal to noise is S/N = 15. If the system is cooled to t = 175K, what is the S/N?
Relevant Equations
Vrms = ##\sqrt{2kTR\Delta f}##
The total noise from other sources and thermal is ##N = N_{other} + N_{thermal}##
##N_{175}/ N_{275} = (N_{other} + \sqrt{2k(175)R\Delta f})/( N_{other} + \sqrt{2k(275)R\Delta f})##
I'm not sure how to simplify the expression as ##N_{other} ## is unknown.
If I assume ##N_{total} = N_{thermal}##, then
##N_{175}/ N_{275} = \sqrt{175/275} = 0.80## meaning the thermal noise is reduced by 20% or ##(S/N)_{new} = 1.20*15 = 18##.
Is this correct?
 
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  • #2
JoJoQuinoa said:
##N_{175}/N_{275} = (N_{other} + \sqrt{2k(175)R\Delta f})/(N_{other} + \sqrt{2k(275)R\Delta f})##

What are the units of ##N##, and what are the units of ##\sqrt{2kTR\Delta f}##?
 
  • #3
JoJoQuinoa said:
If I assume Ntotal=Nthermal,
I think you have to make this assumption, unless you have more information. Suppose the signal was huge and Nother was also huge, thermal noise could be insignificant, regardless of temperature.
 
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1. What is thermal noise?

Thermal noise, also known as Johnson-Nyquist noise, is a type of noise that arises from the random thermal motion of electrons in a conductor. It is present in all electronic systems and can affect the accuracy of measurements and signal processing.

2. How is thermal noise calculated?

Thermal noise is calculated using the formula: Vn = √(4kBTRΔf), where Vn is the noise voltage, kB is the Boltzmann constant, T is the temperature in Kelvin, R is the resistance of the conductor, and Δf is the bandwidth of the system.

3. How does thermal noise affect signal to noise ratio?

Thermal noise can decrease the signal to noise ratio (SNR) in a system by adding unwanted noise to the signal. This can make it more difficult to accurately detect and measure the signal, especially in low-power or high-frequency applications.

4. How can thermal noise be reduced?

Thermal noise can be reduced by decreasing the temperature of the system, increasing the bandwidth, or using low-noise components. Additionally, signal processing techniques such as filtering and averaging can be used to reduce the impact of thermal noise on the signal.

5. What are some common sources of thermal noise?

Some common sources of thermal noise include resistors, diodes, and transistors. Other sources can include connectors, cables, and other components with resistance. In high-temperature environments, thermal noise can also be caused by the thermal agitation of ions in a conductor.

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