Calculus involving cubic discriminants

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    Calculus Cubic
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of cubic discriminants in solving cubic equations, specifically focusing on the cubic function $4x^3-4x-(1+m)=0$. Participants explore different methods for finding the cubic discriminant and analyze the implications of tangent lines to a quartic function.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of switching the roles of coefficients $b$ and $c$ in the cubic discriminant formula and seeks clarification on how this affects the outcome.
  • Another participant presents an analytical approach to finding tangent lines to the curve $y=x^4-2x^2-x$, deriving conditions for the slopes and intercepts of tangent lines.
  • There is a query about the simplification process of an equation involving $a$ and $b$, specifically how $-3a^4+2a^2=-3b^4+2b^2$ simplifies to $(a+b)(3(a^2+b^2)-2)=0$.
  • A later reply provides a step-by-step factorization of the equation, showing the derivation of the simplified form.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing levels of understanding regarding the cubic discriminant and the simplification of equations. There is no consensus on the correct approach to the cubic discriminant or the tangent line problem, indicating multiple competing views and unresolved questions.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on specific mathematical identities and simplifications that may depend on assumptions about the variables involved. The discussion does not resolve the underlying assumptions or the correctness of the methods presented.

Dethrone
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My question is on this site:
https://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070217181026AAe29O6

There are two methods to do it, and I do not understand the first one in which the person uses cubic discriminants.

A cubic function is $ax^3+bx^2+cx+d=0$, and the function we are trying to find the cubic discriminants of is $4x^3-4x-(1+m)=0$. Therefore, $a=4$, $b=0$, $c=-4$, and $d=-(1+m)$. The poster on yahoo answers switches the roles of $b$ and $c$; how come he gets the correct answer whereas I didn't?

The cubic discriminant is given by:
$$\Delta=b^2c^2-4ac^3-4b^3d-27a^2d^2+18abcd$$
 
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Let's take a look at the tangent lines to the given curve using our Desmos API:

[desmos="-3,3,-3,3"]y=x^4-2x^2-x;y=\left(4a^3-4a-1\right)(x-a)+a^4-2a^2-a;a=1[/desmos]

From this it would appear that for $a=\pm1$, we have the same tangent line.

Now, let's look at this analytically...the curve is:

$$y=x^4-2x^2-x$$

The tangent line is:

$$y=\left(4a^3-4a-1\right)(x-a)+a^4-2a^2-a$$

or in slope-intercept form:

$$y=\left(4a^3-4a-1\right)x-3a^4+2a^2$$

Let's let the two $x$-values of the tangent points be $a$ and $b$, where $a\ne b$. Since the slope of the two lines must be the same, we find:

$$4a^3-4a-1=4b^3-4b-1$$

This reduces to:

$$a^2+ab+b^2-1=0$$

Also, since the two intercepts must also be the same, we require:

$$-3a^4+2a^2=-3b^4+2b^2$$

And this reduces to:

$$(a+b)\left(3\left(a^2+b^2\right)-2\right)=0$$

Only the root $b=-a$ leads to distinct values, and so we find:

$$a^2+a(-a)+(-a)^2-1=0$$

$$a=\pm1$$

And thus the line:

$$y=-x-1$$

is the online line tangent to the given quartic at two distinct points. And the two points are:

$$(-1,0),\,(1,-2)$$

I know I didn't answer your actual question, but I thought I would share how I would work the problem.
 
Hi Mark (Poolparty),

How does $\displaystyle -3a^4+2a^2=-3b^4+2b^2$ simplify to $\displaystyle (a+b)\left(3\left(a^2+b^2\right)-2\right)=0$ :confused:
 
Rido12 said:
Hi Mark (Poolparty),

How does $\displaystyle -3a^4+2a^2=-3b^4+2b^2$ simplify to $\displaystyle (a+b)\left(3\left(a^2+b^2\right)-2\right)=0$ :confused:

Let's arrange it as:

$$3a^4-3b^4-2a^2+2b^2=0$$

Factor:

$$3\left(a^4-b^2\right)-2\left(a^2-b^2\right)=0$$

$$3\left(a^2+b^2\right)\left(a^2-b^2\right)-2\left(a^2-b^2\right)=0$$

$$\left(a^2-b^2\right)\left(3\left(a^2+b^2\right)-2\right)=0$$

$$(a+b)(a-b)\left(3\left(a^2+b^2\right)-2\right)=0$$

Since $a\ne b$, we may divide through by $a-b$:

$$(a+b)\left(3\left(a^2+b^2\right)-2\right)=0$$
 

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