Calculus of Variations Euler-Lagrange Diff. Eq.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculus of variations, specifically focusing on the Euler-Lagrange differential equation and the concept of finding stationary points of functionals. Participants express their challenges in understanding the material presented in a specific textbook and seek clarification on key concepts and definitions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in understanding the calculus of variations and the specific function F(y, dy/dx, x) as described in their textbook.
  • Another participant questions the meaning of a function that depends on y, x, and dy/dx, seeking examples of its application.
  • A third participant provides an example involving energy, suggesting that F can be expressed in terms of multiple variables, which may help clarify the concept.
  • There is a request for a more detailed explanation of the text's paragraph regarding the conditions for making the integral I stationary.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express confusion and seek clarification on the concepts, indicating a lack of consensus on the understanding of the material. Multiple viewpoints are presented regarding the interpretation of the function F and its implications.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention varying levels of exposure to prerequisite knowledge, which may affect their understanding of the calculus of variations. There are indications of missing foundational concepts that could clarify the discussion.

Who May Find This Useful

Students studying calculus of variations, particularly those using the Mathews and Walker text, or anyone interested in the foundational concepts of functionals and their applications in physics.

avocadogirl
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I'm in dire need of help in understanding calculus of variations. My professor uses the Mathews and Walker text, second edition, entitled Mathematical Methods of Physics and, he has a tendency to skip around from chapters found towards the beginning of the text to those nearer the end. I couldn't say if that was an intended property of this text but, anything beyond freshman level kinematics or electricity and magnetism is only offered on a two-year rotation at the college which I attend so, my exposure to potential prerequisites for the subject matter covered in the course is spotty, at best.

The text asks that I consider a function:

F(y, dy/dx, x) and the integral I = \int F(y, dy/dx, x) dx, evaluated from a to b = I[y(x)]

Then, the text indicates that the objective would be to choose the function y(x) such that I[y(x)] is either a maximum or a minimum...("or (more generally) staionary.")

It continues:

"That is, we want to find a y(x) such that if we replace y(x) by y(x) + \xi(x), I is unchanged to order \xi, provided \xi is sufficiently small.

In order to reduce this problem to the familiar one of making an ordinary function stationary, consider the replacement
y(x) y(x) + \alpha\eta(x)
where \alpha is small and \eta(x) arbitrary. If I[y(x)] is to be stationary, then we must have
dI/d\alpha, evaluated at \alpha=0, = 0
for all \eta(x)."

Could someone offer a "dumbed-down" explanation of what the text attempts to communicate?
 
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I'm not sure that I truly understand what it means to have a function like:

F(y, dy/dx, x). This is a function dependent upon not only x and y but, upon dy/dx as well? If that's correct, what does that mean exactly? In what scenario would one see something like that? Honestly, I'm probably doing pretty well to truly understand the correlation between x and y when y is a function of x: y(x).

Thank you.
 
Hi avocadogirl! :smile:
avocadogirl said:
I'm not sure that I truly understand what it means to have a function like:

F(y, dy/dx, x). This is a function dependent upon not only x and y but, upon dy/dx as well? If that's correct, what does that mean exactly? In what scenario would one see something like that? Honestly, I'm probably doing pretty well to truly understand the correlation between x and y when y is a function of x: y(x).

For example, the energy of a body might be 1/2 mv2 + mgh + Be-kt

that's a function of dh/dt and h and t separately :wink:

(the point is that it's the way F is written that matters … once you solve the equation, you could presumably just write F = G(h,t) or even F = H(t) … but so long as it's still written F(dh/dt, h,t) it can be differentiated separately with respect to each of the three variables)
 
Thank you. That does make more sense, especially when thinking of the function in such a way where the components might be differentiable.

Could someone elaborate a little about the paragraph in the text, in its entirety?

Thank you, sincerely.
 

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