Can a Black hole also be a wormhole?

[Sangam Swadik]

Can a Black hole also be a wormhole ?? is it possible

 

[QuantumQuest]

Although not generally confirmed (of course), take a look here http://news.discovery.com/space/galaxies/is-our-galaxys-monster-black-hole-a-wormhole-140527.htm

 

[newjerseyrunner]

In theory, yes. I remember Dr. Hawking talking about it, but there is a problem in which both when and where you end up is completely random and it's a one way trip. Of course only energy could make the trip, matter would be ripped to shreds.

 

[Drakkith]

Can a Black hole also be a wormhole ?? is it possible

It is possible only in the sense that there are valid solutions to the equations of General Relativity that give us a wormhole. It is extremely unlikely that wormholes are physically possible due to the need for exotic (nonexistent) types of matter with negative energy to keep the wormhole open.

From here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole

Researchers have no observational evidence for wormholes, but the equations of the theory of general relativity have valid solutions that contain wormholes. The first type of wormhole solution discovered was the Schwarzschild wormhole, which would be present in the Schwarzschild metric describing an eternal black hole, but it was found that it would collapse too quickly for anything to cross from one end to the other. Wormholes that could be crossed in both directions, known as traversable wormholes, would only be possible if exotic matter with negative energy density could be used to stabilize them.

Note that matter with negative energy density does not exist as far as we know.

 

[Chronos]

Its unclear how such an exotic form of matter could even be detected

 

[|Glitch|]

It is possible only in the sense that there are valid solutions to the equations of General Relativity that give us a wormhole. It is extremely unlikely that wormholes are physically possible due to the need for exotic (nonexistent) types of matter with negative energy to keep the wormhole open.

From here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole
Note that matter with negative energy density does not exist as far as we know.

Would such a theoretical wormhole be possible with just one black hole, or would two black holes be required (one at either end) with "exotic (nonexistent) types of matter with negative energy to keep the wormhole open?" In other words, would the entrance of a theoretical wormhole have a similar mass and density as a black hole? If so, would that not pose a problem for anything attempting to leave a theoretical wormhole?

 

[Drakkith]

Would such a theoretical wormhole be possible with just one black hole, or would two black holes be required (one at either end) with "exotic (nonexistent) types of matter with negative energy to keep the wormhole open?" In other words, would the entrance of a theoretical wormhole have a similar mass and density as a black hole? If so, would that not pose a problem for anything attempting to leave a theoretical wormhole?

No idea. I don't much about the details of GR and wormholes.

 

[Sense]

I'd say the black hole itself is the exit, as everything entering it is concentrated to a single spot. Maybe because everything "shrinks" there is a miniature universe in this one single spot in the centre of the black hole. You could never get out because inside this universe, the other side of the black hole would look like the big bang as it creates this miniature universe from everything it pulls in on the positive side and creates on the miniature negative side from a single spot. Thus also explaining the big bang. Inside this new universe again black holes appear and repeat the same progress over and over again. Creating universe after universe recycling itself for ever. So maybe at the centre of our owne universe, there is a single negative black hole(white hole?) spewing out new pieces for our universe and this is also why we keep expanding. And we can locate our centre by finding the blastwave of our big bang and use that to calculate the centre.

 

[Loren]

Can a Black hole also be a wormhole ?? is it possible

Well, one problem would be mass. If a black hole acted as a wormhole it would be depositing mass somewhere else besides inside the black hole, which means that the rate of increase of a black hole would either stop or decrease in spite of it continuing to ingest more mass.

The second problem is that no where have we observed mass or energy simply spewing out like a fire hydrant in the universe (i.e., a white hole).

 

[Loren]

I'd say the black hole itself is the exit, as everything entering it is concentrated to a single spot. Maybe because everything "shrinks" there is a miniature universe in this one single spot in the centre of the black hole. You could never get out because inside this universe, the other side of the black hole would look like the big bang as it creates this miniature universe from everything it pulls in on the positive side and creates on the miniature negative side from a single spot. Thus also explaining the big bang. Inside this new universe again black holes appear and repeat the same progress over and over again. Creating universe after universe recycling itself for ever. So maybe at the centre of our owne universe, there is a single negative black hole(white hole?) spewing out new pieces for our universe and this is also why we keep expanding. And we can locate our centre by finding the blastwave of our big bang and use that to calculate the centre.

There is no center of the universe and no one point where the Big Bang happened.

The Big Bang happened everywhere in the universe at the same time.

I blame our educational system for perpetuating this myth along with all the science shows and magazines.

 

[|Glitch|]

Well, one problem would be mass. If a black hole acted as a wormhole it would be depositing mass somewhere else besides inside the black hole, which means that the rate of increase of a black hole would either stop or decrease in spite of it continuing to ingest more mass.

The second problem is that no where have we observed mass or energy simply spewing out like a fire hydrant in the universe (i.e., a white hole).

If a theoretical wormhole were connected between two black holes, one at either end, there would not be a "white" hole since nothing could ever leave the gravitational effects of a black hole. To paraphrase the old "Roach Motel" commercial, mass can check in, but it can't check out. One, or both, of the black holes that form the theoretical wormhole would just get more massive as mass passes the event horizon.

 

[Sense]

There is no center of the universe and no one point where the Big Bang happened.

The Big Bang happened everywhere in the universe at the same time.

I blame our educational system for perpetuating this myth along with all the science shows and magazines.

You did not read my opinion right, because if we ourselves started out in this way, it would be described as everywhere because it is at the same time the creation of everyting that is. So indeed that woud "feel" like everywhere. And i read that we did not find a white hole, well maybe not. But that is in a 3 dimensional way of thinking. My opinion was more than that and also a little bit a way to get feedback to my opinion. So thanks , but do not blame our educational system because we have a responsibility to educate ourselves to. Maybe in ways like this.

 

[Loren]

You did not read my opinion rigth, because if we ourselves started out in this way, it would be described as everywhere because it is at the same time the creation of everyting that is. So indeed that woud "feel" like everywhere. But that is in a 3 dimensional way of thinking. My opinion was more than that if you would be able to understand what i tried to make clear.

I am interested in understanding your point, but I need help. Can you better clarify it for me?

 

[Sense]

I am interested in understanding your point, but I need help. Can you better clarify it for me?

Well to start off, i am just trying to make sense of everything so i could be wrong or right, i know that. But i like to think that i know a lot.
If i am wrong I'm hoping very much for the right info to correct, and maybe answer this big question.

If everything ending up in the black hole gets concentrated to one single point perfectly gettng squeezed together. This might be in the exact form of what it sucked in, only in a miniature way. Of course this is a very violent progress and it would be very difficult or impossible to do this and come "in" alive.

Now imagine being in the black hole the moment is is created (imploding star)
First the star implodes to a single point, then immediatly it starts being a black hole. For the first time since the creation of this single point it now starts sucking in materials and energy. Inside this black hole at that exact moment i imagine it being very compareable to our big bang.
Because from within this black hole/new universe it would seem like new material coming "in" first is a destructive explosion because it sucks in the remains of the star/energy in. now it starts sucking in the surroundings and it gets calmer. Just like after our big bang. Maybe the material inside the black hole again creates a mini universe.

We don't get material but keep expanding because our "white hole" is on its other side sucking in nothingness or black energy. Thus explaining our expanding.
Thats maybe also the reason it comes in everywhere, because a white hole has not be found, it could be 4 dimensional, thus energizing our whole universe with black matter instead of from a single point.

 

[Loren]

Well to start off, i am just trying to make sense of everything so i could be wrong or right, i know that. But i like to think that i know a lot.
If i am wrong I'm hoping very much for the right info to correct, and maybe answer this big question.

If everything ending up in the black hole gets concentrated to one single point perfectly gettng squeezed together. This might be in the exact form of what it sucked in, only in a miniature way. Of course this is a very violent progress and it would be very difficult or impossible to do this and come "in" alive.

Now imagine being in the black hole the moment is is created (imploding star)
First the star implodes to a single point, then immediatly it starts being a black hole. For the first time since the creation of this single point it now starts sucking in materials and energy. Inside this black hole at that exact moment i imagine it being very compareable to our big bang.
Because from within this black hole/new universe it would seem like new material coming "in" first is a destructive explosion because it sucks in the remains of the star/energy in. now it starts sucking in the surroundings and it gets calmer. Just like after our big bang. Maybe the material inside the black hole again creates a mini universe.

We don't get material but keep expanding because our "white hole" is on its other side sucking in nothingness or black energy. Thus explaining our expanding.
Thats maybe also the reason it comes in everywhere, because a white hole has not be found, it could be 4 dimensional, thus energizing our whole universe with black matter instead of from a single point.

My understanding of a white hole is that it is theoretical, at best, and function the opposite of a black hole. For a white hole, mathematically, material and energy can only go out and nothing can go in.

Nowhere has a white hole been observed.

 

[newjerseyrunner]

Black holes are not perfect points, because of the intense warping of space and time, it would actually take an infinite amount of time for everything that fell into it to be crushed to a point.

 

[Loren]

Black holes are not perfect points, because of the intense warping of space and time, it would actually take an infinite amount of time for everything that fell into it to be crushed to a point.

An interesting point.

It's true for the outside observer, but not on the local frame of the inrushing matter.

 

[serp777]

An interesting point.

It's true for the outside observer, but not on the local frame of the inrushing matter.

In theory you would see the universe speeding up if you were falling into a black hole since for your frame of reference the universe would appear to experience time more quickly. Its possible you would see the entire duration of the universe pass before your eyes, and it would becoming increasingly faster the closer you got to the black hole. The universe might actually end and the black hole could be destroyed by hawking radiation before you were killed by the gravity of the black hole itself--im talking about supermassive black holes.

 

[Cosmic Horseshoe]

Can a Black hole also be a wormhole?

Yes. However, it would be non-traversable in the sense that it would be impossible to use it as shortcut between distance locations.

It could nonetheless be used to allow two persons residing regions that are vastly separated to enter the black hole and meet each other shortly before they are consumed by the black hole's singularity.

It is important to note that the above does not refer to the astrophysical black holes at the centers of galaxies or those that are the end states of stellar evolution. Rather, it refers to peculiar solutions of the Einstein equations of General Relativity.

Source: The Physics of Stargates -- Parallel Universes, Time Travel, and the Enigma of Wormhole Physics by Enrico Rodrigo.

 

[sevenperforce]

In theory you would see the universe speeding up if you were falling into a black hole since for your frame of reference the universe would appear to experience time more quickly. Its possible you would see the entire duration of the universe pass before your eyes, and it would becoming increasingly faster the closer you got to the black hole. The universe might actually end and the black hole could be destroyed by hawking radiation before you were killed by the gravity of the black hole itself--im talking about supermassive black holes.

This is a common misconception. You would cross the event horizon as if it wasn't there; infinite blueshifting/time dilation happens at the singularity, not at the event horizon. You'd still be able to see the universe (albeit compressed to a very small disk) progressing with relative normalcy until well after the singularity stretched you into spaghetti.

 

[Chronos]

Note that radiation entering a black hole is actuallyappears to be redshifted, not blueshifted, to an observer who has already passed the EH. Consider this nothing can remain stationary at, or inside the event horizon. As you, the observe,r streak toward the singularity Light entering from outside the event horizon struggles to reach you [you being further inside the EH] thus it appears to be redshifted. I forget the source, but I recall reading that infalling radiation would be redshifted to a maximum of 2 from the POV of an infalling observer already inside the event horizon. So, no, an infalling observer does not see the entire future of the universe in a blue flash of glory during his altogether brief journey from the event horizon to the singularity. The only way you could observe this [i.e.infinite blueshift would be to hover in place at or inside the EH, which is impossible. See http://www.phys.vt.edu/~jhs/faq/blackholes.html#q11 for further discussion.

 

[sevenperforce]

As you, the observe,r streak toward the singularity Light entering from outside the event horizon struggles to reach you [you being further inside the EH] thus it appears to be redshifted. An infalling observer does not see the entire future of the universe in a blue flash of glory during his altogether brief journey from the event horizon to the singularity. The only way you could observe this [i.e.infinite blueshift would be to hover in place at or inside the EH, which is impossible.

What I was trying to say, but failed miserably to say.

 

[sr8]

Worm holes seem to be a mathematical topology and a philosophical concept for the moment, perhaps no one has done it but you can also calculate worm holes with N exit holes into this or other space time planes. It is possible that many things more bizarre than a worm hole can exist inside a black hole. For example, If time stops and our dimensional aperture is interrupted where information cannot escape, it is not unreasonable to suggest that, where time can stop, time can be synthesized, paths of photons are entangled into a very large array of possibilities due to their lensing in every possible direction. And as many dimensions folded into each other at the start of our universe at high pressure, it is not unreasonable to suppose that as matter is compressed in a black hole, many dimensions are created inside the black hole. The question is... How what is the density and volume of dimensions that can theoretically be created inside a black hole? because, we can vaguely suppose infinite time and space was created from a single small bang in the past, and we cannot see beyond that... however, if it was an infinitely long time and dimensional density prior to the big bang, there is an infinite amount of information compressed within that space. The theoretical mathematical shape of the time space pales in comparison to the notion of what happens to folded up dimensions when large amounts of stuff is compressed into apertures that are comparable to the big bang.

 

[Drakkith]

This thread has been meandering into and out of speculation land and will now be locked.