Can a Moon Have Its Own Moon? Exploring Orbital Possibilities

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the possibility of a moon having its own moon, examining theoretical and observational aspects related to orbital mechanics and gravitational influences. Participants consider both the conditions necessary for such a scenario and the implications of current astronomical observations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that while it may be theoretically possible for a moon to have its own moon, ordinary moon formation processes typically prevent this.
  • Others argue that the area of gravitational influence, or Hill Sphere, is small for moons, making it unlikely for them to capture additional moons.
  • A participant mentions that Earth's Moon was originally much closer to Earth, which would have eliminated the chance for it to have its own moon.
  • It is noted that there are currently no moons of moons in our solar system, but some participants speculate that future discoveries in exosolar systems could reveal such entities.
  • One participant suggests that recent discoveries of multiple moons around Kuiper Belt Objects (KBOs) could lead to scenarios that might fit the definition of a moon of a moon, depending on how definitions are agreed upon.
  • Another point raised is the relationship between moons and their Roche lobes, highlighting the distance and mass scales necessary for stable orbits.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the feasibility of moons having their own moons, with no consensus reached. Some acknowledge the theoretical possibility while others emphasize the practical limitations and current lack of evidence.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of moons and the conditions required for stable orbits, which remain unresolved in the discussion.

mee
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Does anybody know if it is even possible for a planetary moon to have a moon of its own orbiting it?
 
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mee said:
Does anybody know if it is even possible for a planetary moon to have a moon of its own orbiting it?

I suppose it's possible, but I am not 100% knowing of such a moon.

Ordinary moon formation processes prevent this. However, I think it is possible for a rogue asteriod to orbit the moon. However, a rogue asteriod is far more likely to orbit the Earth than to orbit its moon. The larger the area of gravitational influence, the more likely it is to have a moon. An orbit that is at odds with a moon will eventually impact it.
 
To expand upon what kmarinas said, the area of gravitational influence, aka the Hill Sphere is small for moons. Moons tend to migrate after their creation. For example, Earth's Moon was originally much closer. This would have virtually eliminated any chance the Moon had for having moons of its own. Billions of years later, after arriving in its current orbit, the Moon's Hill sphere has a lot more room in it for moons, but there's no mechanism remaining for delivering a moon to the Moon. The capture method won't work.

There are no moons of moons in our solar system. However, it wouldn't surprise me if some day they were discovered in exosolar systems.
 
Recently several KBOs (Keuper Belt Objects, of which Pluto is the best known) have been found with multiple moons. Thus Pluto, in addition to Charon, has two other companions that orbit each other and around Pluto. [You could twist definitions a little and say that each of those is a a moon of a moon.]
I would not be surprised for a future discovery in the Kuiper Belt to properly meet the moon of a moon definition, once we can agree what a planet is! Like Tony, I am sure there are some out there somewhere, but the stability of the orbits is probably not great. One imagines them forming as the result of collisions.
 
The problem with moons of moons relates to the Roche lobe. Technically, the Earth is a moon of the sun, and our moon is a moon of a moon [earth]. This illustrates the distance and mass scales necessary to permit stable orbits of such entities.
 

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