Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

Can anyone here please tell me about the sun dying?

  1. Feb 28, 2007 #1
    helloooo

    new to this forum...and a total science noob who comes to you seeking knowledge...

    :rolleyes:

    Anyway - i recently saw the new danny boyle movie 'sunshine' - the story is about the sun dying and a rescue team who's on a mission to save the sun by reigniting it.

    My question is?

    - is it actually possible that the sun will die?
    - and if so, what are the possible reasons for it?

    simple explanations please - i'm not a scientist

    :smile:

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=WNZwrgFo3GE"
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2017
  2. jcsd
  3. Feb 28, 2007 #2

    D H

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor

    The Sun will die when it completely runs out of fuel. Before that, it will run out of hydrogen and switch to helium fusion. This will make it become a red giant that may well engulf the Earth. The Sun is too small to progress beyond burning helium. It will eventually shrink to a white dwarf.

    Don't fret about this too much, though. It won't happen for a long, long time. The Milky Way will collide with Andromeda before our sun goes into the red giant phase. That will destroy not only our solar system but big chunks of the galaxy. Time frame for these events: Milky Way/Andromeda collision in 3 billion years, sun becomes a red giant in 4-5 billion years.

    Regarding the movie: Awful scientific concept. Period.
     
  4. Feb 28, 2007 #3
    thanks for that DH..Hope you don;t mind me asking you some more questions...humour me:wink:

    presumably there's a point for us here on earth, between where we are now and the sun totally dying out, where the start of it's demise will affect us. An ice age of some sort?

    Do you have any idea of what degree of fluctuation in the sun's current behaviour would be required right now for something like that to happen?

    <sorry - i know my grasp on the actual science is slender :frown: >
     
  5. Feb 28, 2007 #4
    actually - i just found this article on the sunshine site about the science in the movie

    http://www.sunshinedna.com/?p=180 [Broken]

    apparently there is some decent scientific for the situation in the movie
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
  6. Feb 28, 2007 #5
    That seems to go against everything I've read concerning our collision with Andromeda. Namely that the VAST majority of the stars in our galaxy will not be "destroyed" by the event... perhaps only a few near the center of the galaxy will be in any real danger. Our solar system is far enough away from the center that this is not be a concern for us. Of course, correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  7. Feb 28, 2007 #6
    interesting - are you formally trained in this stuff?
    Do you have any idiot-proof further reading in this direction?

    would much appreciate it :rolleyes:
     
  8. Feb 28, 2007 #7
    No, I'm not formally trained... unless you count 1 semester of astronomy in college :)
    Well, here's an very introductory level NASA article:
    http://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/5-8/features/F_When_Gallaxies_Collide.html

    To quote:
    "there is very little chance of stars from the Andromeda galaxy hitting the Sun or the Earth. Even though the galaxies pass clear through each other, she says, stars in a galaxy are spaced very far apart. "

    Here is a good one which includes a computer simulation of the collision
    http://www.cita.utoronto.ca/~dubinski/tflops/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2017
  9. Feb 28, 2007 #8

    D H

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor

    A collision is extremely unlikely. However, all it takes to destroy life on Earth is to perturb the orbit a bit.
     
  10. Feb 28, 2007 #9

    Evo

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    :rofl: No, this is nonsense. A bomb made of dark matter and uranium that re-ignites the sun to stop a Q Ball. :rofl: :rolleyes:

    I was hoping someone here would address the sun dying for you.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
  11. Mar 1, 2007 #10
    hehehe....i see. no solar experts then? damn
     
  12. Mar 1, 2007 #11

    russ_watters

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    ??? These aren't hard questions, questura, and you got good responses. There aren't a whole lot of people in the world with the profession of 'sun studier'.
     
  13. Mar 1, 2007 #12
    oh for sure...sorry, didn't mean to sound ungrateful :!!)

    It's just quite surprising how militant and definite people seem to be about the science involved, but then everyone keeps producing (what looks to me like) compelling evidence to back up what they're saying.
    See, Evo says that stuff is "nonsense", but i just looked up the guy who was the science consultant on Sunshine and he looks like he knows what he's talking about > http://www.apolloschildren.com/brian/
     
  14. Mar 1, 2007 #13

    russ_watters

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    I'm not sure what the problem is - his credentials look fine, but the movie is a work of fiction. It isn't any more meaningful than the rediculously silly movies "The Core" and "The Day after Tomorrow". The fact that they are employing a real scientist as a consultant should not be taken to imply that he endorses the science behind the movie.
     
  15. Mar 1, 2007 #14

    Astronuc

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor

    Evo is quite correct, and Russ pointed out that appropriate/good answers were given. D H's original answer is spot on.

    http://www.astro.uiuc.edu/~kaler/AstroBrief/chapter12/sunage.html [Broken]

    http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/solar_system/sun/sun_index.html

    http://www-solar.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/~eric/SOLNS/SUNLect2.ppt

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun#Life_cycle

    from http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~frogel/Ast161/outline161_a00_part1.html - near bottom in section "Stars"

    http://ds9.ssl.berkeley.edu/solarweek/MONDAY/facts.html

    The Sun - http://jura.astro.utoledo.edu/~bjorkman/astr1010/chap10_1.pdf

    http://physics.uoregon.edu/~jimbrau/astr123/Notes/Chapter23.html#types

    This might be of interest - Age determinations of main-sequence stars: combining different methods
    https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bitstream/1887/7326/1/A&A_348_897_909.pdf (best to use 'save target as')


    At the moment, mankind cannot produce any device which would have any significant impact on the sun! It wouldn't even get near enough!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
  16. Mar 1, 2007 #15

    DaveC426913

    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    The story, like almost all pop sci-fi, is total fiction topped with sprinkles of scientific terminology. Star Trek has a science consultant too, but that doesn't mean the stories are rooted in science.
     
  17. Mar 8, 2007 #16
    Below is a link to a web page created by Helmut Schattl of the Max Planck Institute regarding the future of our sun-

    http://home.arcor.de/helmut.schlattl/astro/animation/english/anim_index.html

    There's a 7 minute video which is informative (this is a bit tricky to d/l. Right click on "The Future of Our Sun" and 'save target as'. In the 'file name' box, replace the second suffix .avi with .bz2 so the file name reads sun.avi.bz2, then in the 'save as type' box, change to 'all files', then save the file to your computer. Once saved, the zipped file can be opened with bzip2 or winRAR software. Alternatively, the video is posted on YouTube under the same title).

    regards
    Steve
     
  18. Mar 8, 2007 #17

    DaveC426913

    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    Great. Just great.

    Our sun is in the prime of middle age. Just when everything is going along tickety-boo - BLAM - it's going to be outplaced by some younger, brighter, bluer star that's fresh out of a stellar nursery and all about the 'New Physics' and everything. Our Sun will be adrift in a world it was not made for. It will have to reinvent itself, start at the bottom again (probably won't even have any planet supervision responsibilites, and even have to clean its own stellar neighbourhood of dust and gas). And after all that, it will surely have to abandon its dream of retiring as a nova or even a supergiant, basking in the warm tropical heat. More likely, it will work right till its death and end up a shriveled, burnt out white dwarf, dying.
    Alone.
    In the darkess.

    What? Did I say that out loud?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2007
  19. Mar 9, 2007 #18
    oh nice one steve..thanks very much. I'll take a look at this this evening

    :)
     
  20. Mar 12, 2007 #19
  21. Mar 14, 2007 #20

    LOL, nice one
     
  22. Mar 14, 2007 #21
    oooo...

    look what i found.....A video of Mercury

    http://www.sunshinedna.com/videos/19 [Broken]

    :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
  23. Mar 21, 2007 #22
    offtopic (or maybe on topic - i don;t know anymore)

    just seen a review on aintitcool from a screening here in London a couple of days ago:

    "Having had the pleasure to catch a screening of Danny Boyle’s new film Sunshine, followed by a Q&A with the man himself and star of the film Cillian Murphy, I thought I’d share my 2 cents worth with you.

    Essentially the plot is that the sun is slowly dying and a group of scientists are on a mission to reverse this by ‘kick starting’ the sun. The film knowingly references many sci-fi films from the serious and reflective, 2001 and Aliens, to the more popcorn, Event Horizon. To give you an early idea of how much I enjoyed it I’d place it much closer to the first two films mentioned than the latter. In fact some of the scenes almost feel like updated versions of Kubrick’s film (watch out for the monoliths at the end!) As their ship (the Icarus II) gets closer to the sun they encounter Icarus I, from an earlier, failed attempt. As soon as they decide to change course and investigate things start to go wrong.

    Some of the most wonderful thing about the film are the visuals and sound design, this film is a treat for the senses. The CGI work is exemplary and goes a long way to establishing the sun as a character in its own right. The sound design suits the grand scale of the picture perfectly, we’re talking Oscar quality here, and Danny Boyle’s directing is at times mesmerising. The choices he makes behind the camera are inspired. He manages to infuse the screen with beauty, from the serene depictions of the ship at the beginning of the film to the extreme, jumpy, staccato, blurry and physically jarring work that comes later. It is all note perfect.

    There are some fine performances but they are all overshadowed by the truly excellent visuals. Whilst Boyle does his best to balance everything out there is no denying that the visuals, don’t necessarily overpower, but are of a much higher standard that some of the acting on display. Cillian Murphy puts in a strong performance and is able to convey the internal struggle of the character very well. Both Michelle Yeoh and Hiroyuki Sanda are very good and Rose Byrne equips herself well in a part that is far too small. The other performances range from average to poor, the main problem being that the supporting actors are unable to fully portray the intellectual gravitas that such people in their position and their characters would inevitably have and that ultimately weakens the impact of the film. That’s not to say its all their own fault as the characters on the periphery are very one sided and stereotypical not leaving the cast a great deal to work with. Though it is not long before in true sci-fi style they meet untimely demises.

    The closer the crew travel to the sun the more their obsession with its power takes control to the point where it takes on almost mythical proportions and the film poses some metaphysical questions.

    A hugely enjoyable if not totally original film Sunshine would not exist if it were not for those that have gone before it. Boyle has borrowed from the best sci-fi of the last 40 years and brought it bang up to date. I personally can’t wait to watch it again!"
     
  24. Apr 2, 2007 #23
  25. Apr 5, 2007 #24
    UK release this weekend! BOH!

    :)
     
  26. Apr 12, 2007 #25
    http://www.sunshinesunspots.com/ [Broken]

    cute idea...and lol @ the first entry > http://youtube.com/sunspotsmessageuk [Broken]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
Share this great discussion with others via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook




Loading...