Can Black Holes Increase in Mass?

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    Black hole Hole Mass
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the mechanisms by which black holes can increase in mass, exploring theoretical and observational aspects related to their formation, interactions, and the matter they consume. It touches on concepts from astrophysics and cosmology.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that black holes gain mass from their initial formation during supernova events and through collisions with other black holes.
  • Others argue that black holes can gain mass by "devouring" matter, suggesting that this process contributes to their overall mass.
  • A participant notes that the definition of mass can vary depending on the perspective, indicating that mass gain is observable from different frames of reference.
  • One participant mentions the Komar mass as a way to define mass changes when matter falls into a black hole.
  • Another participant raises a point about the complexities of observing mass gain, particularly the infinite time it takes for an object to cross the event horizon from a distant observer's viewpoint, suggesting that the mathematics involved is more complicated than it appears.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanisms of mass gain in black holes, with no consensus reached on the specifics of how mass is defined or observed in relation to black holes.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in the discussion include varying definitions of mass, the dependence on observational perspectives, and unresolved mathematical complexities related to black hole physics.

Nova
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It is confirmed that Black Holes have variations of masses. But these masses are said to be gained from the base mass from the Supernova it's born from. Another way a Black hole gained mass was that the collisions of multiple Black Holes caused it to add on to the mass of each other, such as when two super massive Black Holes collide to form an elliptical galaxy. But if these black holes can gain mass from each other, then it should gain mass from the matter it devours, right?
 
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Depends on where you are looking from and what you count as the mass of the black hole.
In the sense that black holes can "devour matter", yes, they gain mass as a result.
 
Thread closed temporarily for Moderation...
 
A thread derailment has been removed and the thread reopened. I remind participants to limit responses to topics about which you have some mainstream scientific knowledge, and to report nonsense and speculation rather than further promulgating it.
 
Nova said:
It is confirmed that Black Holes have variations of masses. But these masses are said to be gained from the base mass from the Supernova it's born from. Another way a Black hole gained mass was that the collisions of multiple Black Holes caused it to add on to the mass of each other, such as when two super massive Black Holes collide to form an elliptical galaxy. But if these black holes can gain mass from each other, then it should gain mass from the matter it devours, right?
Right. The usual way to define "mass" here would be the Komar mass before and after matter falls in.[/size]
 
I think the following discussion is relevant - particularly the last post.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=355960
... the usual issue about BHs gaining mass is the observation that it takes an object an infinite amount of time, from the POV of a distant observer, to cross the event horizon.
The actual math is trickier than that.
 

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