Can Breaking a Traffic Rule Change Your Life?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of breaking traffic laws, specifically related to running a red light and the associated penalties. Participants share personal experiences, opinions on traffic enforcement, and the role of red light cameras in their communities.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Personal anecdotes
  • Exploratory reasoning
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses remorse for turning right at a red light 6.4 seconds too early and seeks forgiveness.
  • Another suggests that citizens can influence local government decisions regarding red light cameras by voicing their concerns at city council meetings.
  • Some participants share experiences of receiving citations from red light cameras and discuss the perceived fairness of these penalties.
  • There is a mention of a significant revenue generated by traffic cameras in certain areas, raising questions about their purpose.
  • Several participants discuss the legal requirements for turning right on red, including the necessity of coming to a complete stop.
  • One participant questions whether any accidents or victims resulted from the traffic violation in question.
  • Another participant recounts a personal experience with a traffic ticket in D.C., expressing distrust in the local government's integrity.
  • Some argue that traffic enforcement often targets minor infractions while more dangerous driving behaviors go unchecked.
  • There are differing opinions on the effectiveness and morality of traffic cameras as a means of law enforcement.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the fairness of traffic laws and the enforcement of red light violations. Some believe that the laws are just and should be followed, while others argue that the enforcement practices are flawed and disproportionately punitive.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific local laws and experiences, which may vary by jurisdiction. There is uncertainty regarding the interpretation of traffic laws and the effectiveness of red light cameras in improving road safety.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals concerned about traffic laws, local government policies, and the implications of traffic enforcement practices in their communities.

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I'm heart broken to announce that I have broke the law of the land. I made a premeditated red light turn on an intersection 6.4 seconds too early. Not 6.0 seconds but 6.4 seconds. I seek forgiveness for what I have done.

I seek to confess my sins - yes everything.

I promise to write "I will never turn on red light" 100 times on the blackboard.

I will burn 1984 and swear I never read it.

I will repent all the demons.

But nooo, don't make me pay 100 bucks ....I'm afraid of rats
 
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You can wait on paying the $100 in the hopes that your local or state government decides that these red light cameras are a bad idea. You can help convince your local government that these cameras are a bad idea by speaking out at city council meetings. This has happened widely throughout Texas, for instance. Red light cameras were all the rage for a while, but that rage has diminished by quite a bit due to rage on the parts of the citizenry.

Unfortunately this is not the case in my home town. I confess that I too am guilty of a similar crime.
 
D H said:
You can wait on paying the $100 in the hopes that your local or state government decides that these red light cameras are a bad idea. You can help convince your local government that these cameras are a bad idea by speaking out at city council meetings.

I have an option to go court. But there is no way to convince the honorable judge otherwise, in light of proof accurate to mere microseconds. I'm thinking to just go to court and give a speech on the rise of corrupion and decay of society, and then pay the fine.

Although council meeting would be better, but meandering through ranks to reach the council sounds like more work than it's worth.

There was another traffic camera set up by a major mall. In just few months it collected a million dollars, but then citizens pledged never to go to this mall, and the city immediately took down the camera.
 
So it was 6.4 seconds before it turned green? You're not allowed to make right turns at red lights where you live?
 
what said:
There was another traffic camera set up by a major mall. In just few months it collected a million dollars.
It seems that the township has a worse problem than cameras.
 
Did you cause an accident? Was there a victim of this "crime" you committed?
 
leroyjenkens said:
So it was 6.4 seconds before it turned green? You're not allowed to make right turns at red lights where you live?

I was wondering the same thing. Which side of the road do you drive on?
 
I was wondering the same thing. Which side of the road do you drive on?

Was going on right lane, and made a right turn on an intersection when light was red. At first I assumed there was "no turn on red" sign, but I went there again today, and there is no sign that says no turn on red.

From what I understand, you have to come to a complete stop, and then make the turn. I probably didn't do that, just slowed down and then made the turn.

The notice I got is not a ticket, but from some company contracted out by the city. I have no traffic citations, but on the notice they threaten to revoke your license if you don't pay.
 
what said:
Was going on right lane, and made a right turn on an intersection when light was red. At first I assumed there was "no turn on red" sign, but I went there again today, and there is no sign that says no turn on red.

From what I understand, you have to come to a complete stop, and then make the turn. I probably didn't do that, just slowed down and then made the turn.

The notice I got is not a ticket, but from some company contracted out by the city. I have no traffic citations, but on the notice they threaten to revoke your license if you don't pay.

I've been told by police officers that failure to stop on red is one of the things that they get lots of complaints about.

In any case, this is the first that I've heard of a traffic camera ticketing for an incomplete stop. Did they send you video proof?
 
  • #10
The citations typically come with video and/or pictures. I'm in the Houston area as well and they were instituted here within the past year. A guy I work with received one for not coming to a complete stop before turning right on red. The citation specifically said so, and the video showed it.
 
  • #11
So the law says you have to stop before you turn right through a red light. And you say, you didn't stop. So, what exactly is your complaint? Stop whining and pay the fine. If you take it to traffic court, the judge will see the video showing you didn't stop. If I were the judge, I would then assess the normal fine plus as much extra as possible as your fee for wasting the court's time.

Are you in the US? The system there is, the legislature makes the laws and the police & court enforce them The judge can't say, "you're right, I don't like thaat law either, run along now..."
 
  • #12
I waste court time all the time. Cracks me up.

I pay the fine the day before the date so they can't tag me with any court fees.

Yay for me!

Note: Financially... makes sense to wait until the last possible minute.
 
  • #13
gmax137 said:
So the law says you have to stop before you turn right through a red light. And you say, you didn't stop. So, what exactly is your complaint? Stop whining and pay the fine. If you take it to traffic court, the judge will see the video showing you didn't stop. If I were the judge, I would then assess the normal fine plus as much extra as possible as your fee for wasting the court's time.
Camera citations like this are mainly just revenue generators. There are millions of people breaking various minor traffic laws on a daily basis and last I checked the world has not come to some heinous end. Most of the people pulling the most dangerous stunts out in traffic by bobbing and weaving in and out of traffic and cutting people off not even using their signals are rarely if ever ticketed. But you put a cop or a camera sitting in a place where people consistently break the law and no one is getting hurt then ticket hundreds of people who are mainly responsible individuals who will actually pay their fine and suddenly your city is rolling in cash.

Gmax said:
Are you in the US? The system there is, the legislature makes the laws and the police & court enforce them The judge can't say, "you're right, I don't like thaat law either, run along now..."
Technically they can though generally you have to give a good argument as to the legality and have a significant number of others who also are fighting the particular law before a judge will make such a decision. There is a similar thread from Edward regarding a camera ticket that his wife received which the court threw out because of the numerous complaints about similar tickets.
 
  • #14
In D.C. years ago, I thought a left turn was prohibited from 14th onto Independence, but I saw that the neon sign for "no left turn" was turned off. Upon taking the left turn, I was pulled over by a policeman. He told me that I had made an illegal left turn, that I had not seen another, painted sign among a half dozen others. I paid my ticket in part because of the notoriety of D.C. Traffic Court.

This just served to convince me that the government there is corrupt.
 
  • #15
JasonRox said:
I waste court time all the time. Cracks me up.

TheStatutoryApe said:
... suddenly your city is rolling in cash.

Loren Booda said:
... This just served to convince me that the government there is corrupt.

You all need to grow up.
 
  • #16
gmax137 said:
You all need to grow up.

I live in an area where traffic accidents are extremely common. I daily deal with multiple people cutting me off, not signaling lane changes, and riding my bumper among other dangerous driving habits. Then I watch cops lay traps and sit there for hours so they can ticket people for running a stop sign in an area where I have never seen a single accident. I get a parking ticket for parking in front of my own building in an area that is not marked for no parking. I hear about people in the next city who have parking enforcement show up like clock work to ticket their vehicles on street sweeping day even though the street sweeper itself rarely cleans their streets and their city council wants to raise the fines. I get a fix it ticket and the police department charges me to sign off on it so that I can go to the court house and pay the fine.

And apparently if I am concerned that the city seems to be more worried about making money off of its citizens rather than dealing with more serious issues I need to grow up.

Perhaps the world has come to some heinous end.
 
  • #17
TheStatutoryApe said:
Technically they can though generally you have to give a good argument as to the legality and have a significant number of others who also are fighting the particular law before a judge will make such a decision. There is a similar thread from Edward regarding a camera ticket that his wife received which the court threw out because of the numerous complaints about similar tickets.

If you're fighting a ticket from a traffic camera, technically, you're not fighting the law in court (the law is the one that states you shouldn't speed or that you need to come to a complete stop before making a right on red, etc.), but the method of enforcing the law. That's really no different if you're arguing there is something wrong about the way a traffic camera operates than that a traffic cop made an error in judgement in determining you broke the law, or that the equipment a cop was using (i.e., radar gun) wasn't calibrated properly.
 
  • #18
Moonbear said:
If you're fighting a ticket from a traffic camera, technically, you're not fighting the law in court (the law is the one that states you shouldn't speed or that you need to come to a complete stop before making a right on red, etc.), but the method of enforcing the law. That's really no different if you're arguing there is something wrong about the way a traffic camera operates than that a traffic cop made an error in judgement in determining you broke the law, or that the equipment a cop was using (i.e., radar gun) wasn't calibrated properly.

Acceptable manners of enforcement are also prescribed by law. Of course in some places dippy law makers make laws denying the ability to challenge certain methods of enforcement.
 
  • #19
Borg said:
I've been told by police officers that failure to stop on red is one of the things that they get lots of complaints about.

In any case, this is the first that I've heard of a traffic camera ticketing for an incomplete stop. Did they send you video proof?

Yes, I was able to read about it in fine print, and eventually accessed it.

The video begins where I come to a complete 100% stop at least 5 ft away from the white line. At the same time, another vehicle was over the white line which slowly rolled and made a right turn.

As I stopped, I rolled and followed the other vehicle to make the turn.

The traffic law of my state says that one must stop before the white line on an intersection, and yield.

It doesn't say how far from white line to stop, and doesn't say how far away the other vehicle must be to consider yielding. The rules of the road are ambiguous in that regard.
 
  • #20
TheStatutoryApe said:
Camera citations like this are mainly just revenue generators. There are millions of people breaking various minor traffic laws on a daily basis and last I checked the world has not come to some heinous end. Most of the people pulling the most dangerous stunts out in traffic by bobbing and weaving in and out of traffic and cutting people off not even using their signals are rarely if ever ticketed. But you put a cop or a camera sitting in a place where people consistently break the law and no one is getting hurt then ticket hundreds of people who are mainly responsible individuals who will actually pay their fine and suddenly your city is rolling in cash.


Yes that's the problem:

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=306372

National Highway Traffic Safety Administration data analyzing vehicle maneuvers and accidents shows that 0.8 percent -- less than 1 percent -- of fatal crashes in 2007 occurred when a driver was turning right.


he Daily Herald obtained records from 28 municipalities with cameras currently operating. Of the 16 municipalities that issue citations for right turns and were able to break down their violation data, 100 percent acknowledged the majority of their tickets come from right turns. The total of right-turn citations going out per town ranged from 100 percent to 64 percent. Six municipalities estimated the rate of right-turn tickets was 90 percent or higher of the total violations.
 
  • #21
The cameras that are an out and out scam are aimed at people making a left turn on the green arrow. If a vehicle in front of you slows down mid turn you are screwed.

It is supposedly done in the name of safety, yet a left on the green arrow is very safe manuever. A left trun on green with traffic flowing is very dangerous.

The fine here in Tucson is $300. People can avoid points on their liscense if they attend traffic school. The instructors at the local school call one particular intersection "The killing fields".

My daughter in law received one of the left on green arrow citations. I had to download a DivX player to watch the video. I am glad I did because the video could be freeze framed. It clearly showed that she was already legally in the intersection with the yellow still on.

I took a picture of my computer screen with a digital camera. My daughter in law took the picture to court. Out side of the court room an officer of the court told my daughter in law that it was impossible to beat a camera citation.

The citation was dismissed by the judge.

One of the things that people here do not like is that the video cameras run 24/7. The video is then the property of the private company who operates the equipment.
 
  • #22
Yes, they are all about revenue collection. Do you realize that the camera company gets at least half of the profits from the fines? The city gets screwed anyway. Controlled studies have also shown some cities and camera companies have conspired to reduce yellow light time to get more violations. It is just another tax by the government in my eyes.
 
  • #23
JasonRox said:
I waste court time all the time. Cracks me up.

I pay the fine the day before the date so they can't tag me with any court fees.

Yay for me!

Note: Financially... makes sense to wait until the last possible minute.

See, this is another scam where I live. In NY, you get an 85 surcharge no matter what. Doesnt matter if you mail it or not. The fee is attached no matter what. My seat belt ticket was 50. The surcharge was 85. I've heard of people getting a $25 ticket and a $85 surcharge. No matter what ticket you get, now matter how small; even a busted tail light, the surcharge will be 85. You will pay at least 85 off the top for any violation. No matter how small. It is extortion.
 
  • #24
In northern Virginia, the third offense by a single person driving in the "High Occupancy Lane" draws a fine near $1000!
 
  • #25
Loren Booda said:
In northern Virginia, the third offense by a single person driving in the "High Occupancy Lane" draws a fine near $1000!

LB - I left No Va in 1975 because I thought it was getting too crowded. You might want to consider leaving yourself, it seems to be stressing you out.
 
  • #26
Balt/Wash metro is a great place to test your driving skills. Part of the problem may be that the traffic signs are written in English.:rolleyes:

I try to avoid routes with traffic cameras whenever possible.
 
  • #27
gmax137 said:
LB - I left No Va in 1975 because I thought it was getting too crowded. You might want to consider leaving yourself, it seems to be stressing you out.

I haven't had a ticket or an accident in over ten years. Learning to drive here nowadays must be stressful, however.