Can Conservation of Energy Explain Particle Movement on a Frictionless Surface?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of conservation of energy to a particle's movement on a frictionless surface, particularly in the context of a sinusoidal path. Participants are exploring whether energy conservation principles can explain the particle's behavior as it interacts with gravitational forces and the surface's shape.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are questioning the applicability of conservation of energy in scenarios involving varying acceleration and curvilinear motion. There are attempts to reconcile initial velocity with potential energy transformations and the conditions under which the particle remains on the surface.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants expressing differing views on the role of conservation of energy. Some have provided insights into the limitations of energy conservation in this context, while others are seeking clarification on specific aspects of the problem. There is an acknowledgment of the need to understand the maximum speed for the particle to remain on the surface without losing contact.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the implications of a frictionless surface and the conditions under which a particle may lose contact with that surface. There are references to specific exercises from a physics problem set, indicating a structured homework context.

Sam_Hawkins
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Homework Statement


http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/undergrad/greStuff/Problems_2009/Mechanics_4.pdf exercise 83


Homework Equations


Conservation of energy?!


The Attempt at a Solution


Well what I think is that if there is no friction, whenever the initial velocity is >0, the particle will just keep sliding over all the bumps, right? The potential energy will just be transformed into kinetical and vice versa ...or am I terribly missing something? The explanation is here:
http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/undergrad/greStuff/Solutions_2009/Mechanics_4.pdf
but it seems really twisted to me.
 
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Conservation of energy has very little to do with this.

The motion is curvilinear, and that means the particle must experience varying acceleration as it follows the curved path. This acceleration is produced by the force of gravity and the reaction of the rippled surface, and there are certain limits to that. So the condition for staying on the surface is that the acceleration required for that must be within the imposed limits.
 
allright, but why does the conservation of energy not apply here?
 
Sam_Hawkins said:
allright, but why does the conservation of energy not apply here?

This is not what I said.
 
Okay, but I do think you know exactly what I meant.

I will play your game then. Why can't I use the conservation of energy?

For every initial speed u>0 it holds that at the bottom of the sinusoid the speed will be v+u where v=sqrt(4gd) which is by itself enough to overcome the gravitational force and climb up at the top of the sinusoid plus it will of course still have the initial velocity. So what is the reason why it does not perform infinite motion? If I imagine the sinusoid as a potential for a particle moving in 1D, the only chance with the particle initially being at the top to perform a finite motion is staying at the spot, is that right?
 
Sam_Hawkins said:
So what is the reason why it does not perform infinite motion?

The problem does not state that, either. Nor is this what the problem is about.

Because the surface is frictionless, conservation of energy holds and motion continues infinitely, you are quire correct about this.

However, as the initial speed exceeds a certain value, the particle will not just slide at the surface, it will fly without any support. The problem is about finding the max speed at which the particle can move along the surface without flying.
 
ah alright my bad lol :D
well that is just retarded, I thought the problem is asking whether the point will slide all the way to the end of the sinusoid (where the line ends on the picture lol :D ).

Ok now it is clear. thanks.
 
Hi, could you please clarify exercise 87 here: http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/undergrad/greStuff/Problems_2009/E&M_4.pdf ?
I do not seem to understand why the magnetic field is of any significance whatsoever when the charged objects are in the outer region?

thanks.
 
See Faraday's law of induction.

In future, please do not address multiple problems in one thread. If you have further questions on exc. 87, please start a new thread.
 

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