Can I Accurately Test Hardness of Materials Without a Microscope?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around methods for testing the hardness of materials without using a microscope. Participants explore various experimental approaches suitable for a classroom demonstration, considering the accuracy and practicality of different techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests dropping an object with consistent energy onto the material, noting that larger scales may lead to testing stiffness rather than hardness.
  • Another proposes using Mohs hardness scale to determine which materials scratch others, establishing a relative hardness order.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes that using a hammer is not an accurate method for determining hardness, as it may cause brittle materials to fail and does not truly measure hardness but rather shatter-resistance.
  • Some participants point out the distinction between hardness and toughness, arguing that the original poster (OP) may have conflated the two concepts, with hardness relating to scratching resistance and toughness relating to breaking resistance.
  • One participant acknowledges the OP's understanding of hardness testing methods, suggesting that a scratch test could be preferable to a hammer test.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the best methods for testing hardness, with no consensus on a single approach. There is also disagreement regarding the definitions and distinctions between hardness and toughness.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations are noted, such as the potential for confusion between hardness and toughness, and the impact of material size and flaws on test results. The discussion does not resolve these complexities.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for educators, students, or hobbyists interested in material science experiments, particularly in a classroom setting.

DrnBrn
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Hi

I'm not a physicist but I'm looking for a simple way to test the hardness of different materials. I need to do a demonstration and collect results with a science class, the task sheet that accompanies the lesson says to place a cloth over the materials and hit them with a hammer. I would prefer a simple experiment that would allow me to calculate the force I apply to each material and then calculate the hardness based on the indentation left by the mass. I am aware of experiments involving small round objects and measuring very small indentations with a special microscope. Is there any way I can do a similar test on a larger scale? The results don't have to be very accurate, just as long as we can see a difference between the materials. Your ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks
Darren
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You've kind of answered your own question. You drop something with a consistent energy onto the object.

The reason impact tests are done on a small scale is because the shape and flaws of the object quickly becomes the dominant factor when you move to large scales. So you start to test stiffness and not hardness. So you need to make sure your samples are the same size.
 
You could also follow Mohs and simple test what scratches what.

A harder substance will scratch a softer one, but not the other way round.
Mohs simply arranged these in a 'pecking order'.
 
First off: hitting things with hammers is not a very accurate way to determine hardness. Also, whacking stuff with a hammer can cause even very hard materials to fail due to brittleness, strong cleavage planes, internal stresses, etc. If you really do need to use impacts, follow the lead of opticians in eyeglass labs. To keep the impacts as consistent as possible, they drop a steel ball bearing through a tube (standard test equipment) such that it impacts a lens. Plain glass lenses will shatter quite easily. Glass lenses that have been tempered properly in a furnace are tougher and resist shattering. Standard plastic lenses can shatter, as well, producing sharp shards. Polycarbonate lenses are very shatter resistant, in contrast. As you can see, the impact test is NOT testing hardness, because glass is very hard, plastic is softer, and polycarbonate is softer still. The impact test simply measures shatter-resistance.
 
The OP seems to have conflated toughness with hardness. The hardness of a substance tells you how well it resists scratching. Toughness shows how it resists breaking. Too different qualities of a material. Diamond is the worlds hardest natural occurring substance, but hit one with a hammer and see what happens. Steel is very tough, one of the reasons that it is used in hammers' but most steels are softer than quartz, and some are softer than glass. Sand, which is usually mostly quartz, will scratch steel quite readily.

So perhaps the OP should redefine what quality he is trying to test.
 
Subductionzon said:
The OP seems to have conflated toughness with hardness. The hardness of a substance tells you how well it resists scratching. Toughness shows how it resists breaking. Too different qualities of a material. Diamond is the worlds hardest natural occurring substance, but hit one with a hammer and see what happens. Steel is very tough, one of the reasons that it is used in hammers' but most steels are softer than quartz, and some are softer than glass. Sand, which is usually mostly quartz, will scratch steel quite readily.

So perhaps the OP should redefine what quality he is trying to test.

Wut? Hardness isn't just about scratching, it's resistance to indentations in general.
He clearly knows at least something about what hardness testing as, as he described (roughly - though it's static) the Brinell test method.

Though a scratch test would in this case be better than a hammer test.

EDIT: I can see why you said that though, many people get toughness and hardness mixed up.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
Replies
5
Views
983
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
1K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
4K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K