Can I Simplify This Proof for Rational Numbers and Integers?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the proof concerning the existence of a rational number that, when added to any given rational number, results in an integer. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and proof simplification within the context of discrete mathematics.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a proof showing that for any rational number q, there exists a rational number r such that q + r is an integer, using specific algebraic manipulations.
  • Another participant questions whether the sets of rational numbers (Q) and integers (Z) are restricted to positive values, suggesting that if not, r = -q would always suffice.
  • A participant acknowledges the alternative approach of using -r but seeks confirmation on the validity of their original proof before submission.
  • One participant critiques the original proof as unnecessarily complicated, suggesting that simpler proofs are preferred and proposing a modification involving a parameter n to explore a more interesting case with restrictions on Q and Z.
  • Multiple participants agree that the original proof is correct, with some expressing that it is not as complicated as suggested, pointing out that a simpler expression like q + (1 - q) = 1 could be used.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the original proof is correct, but there is disagreement regarding its complexity and the preference for simpler proofs. Some participants propose alternative approaches while others defend the original proof's validity.

Contextual Notes

There is an implicit assumption regarding the definitions of rational numbers and integers, and the discussion does not resolve whether the sets are restricted to positive values. The suggestion to modify the proof introduces additional conditions that remain unexplored.

iamsmooth
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[tex]\forall q \in \textbf{Q}, \exists r \in\textbf{Q}[/tex] so that [tex]q + r\in \textbf{Z}[/tex] (Q is set of all rational numbers, and Z is set of all Integers)

Proof:

let q be an arbitrary rational number
thus, [itex]q=\frac{a}{b}[/itex] for some integers a and b, and b is not 0
let [itex]r = \frac{b-a}{b}[/itex] where [itex]b-a,b\in\textbf{Z}[/itex], b is still not 0
[tex] q + r = \frac{a}{b} + \frac{b-a}{b}[/tex]

[tex]= \frac{a+b-a}{b}[/tex]

[tex]= \frac{b}{b}[/tex]

[tex]=1[/tex] and 1 is an integer

End of proof

I'm not sure if I was redundant with anything, or if I forgot to say anything. I think I only need to find one example since the second quantifier says there exists, which I think means I only need to show one algebraically for an arbitrary rational number. Also, I can take advantage of the fact that an integer is an integer, so I don't have to define it I guess...

I'm in a first year discreet mathematics course. If there's anything wrong with my proof, please let me know.

Thanks, appreciate it!
 
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Are Q and Z restricted to > 0? If not r = -q will always work.
 
Yeah, -r would work, but I was wondering if my proof works as well. I realized that -r would work afterwards, but I already wrote down my version which I think works out algebraically, but yeah I wanted to confirm before I submit this.
 
Your proof is correct, but as a mathematician I can tell you it is awful. Simple proofs are always preferred over complicated ones.

A more interesting case is restricting Q and Z to be positive. Then something like your proof might be needed.
(Hint: replace b-a by nb-a, where n is sufficiently large).
 
Your proof is fine. I agree with mathman in spirit, but can you honestly say q+(1-q)=1 is "complicated"?
 
Tobias Funke said:
Your proof is fine. I agree with mathman in spirit, but can you honestly say q+(1-q)=1 is "complicated"?

Your version is several lines shorter than the original.
 

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