Can infinite sets differ finitely?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the question of whether two infinite sets can differ by a finite number of elements. Participants explore examples and definitions related to set differences and symmetric differences, as well as the implications of these concepts in the context of infinite sets.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks if two infinite sets can differ by a finite number of elements.
  • Another participant provides an example with sets A = \mathbb{N} and B = \mathbb{N} \setminus \{1\}, suggesting they differ by one element.
  • A further clarification is made regarding the interpretation of the question, specifically about the symmetric difference of two sets.
  • Another example is presented with sets A = {0, 1, 2, ...} and B = {1, 2, 3, ...}, indicating they differ by the element 0.
  • Several participants inquire about the meaning of the set difference notation, leading to explanations about set subtraction.
  • A participant questions the existence of an inverse function to the set difference, prompting a discussion about unions and subsets.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the conditions under which unions and set differences hold true, emphasizing the importance of subset relationships.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of the original question and provide different examples. There is no consensus on a definitive answer regarding the nature of differences between infinite sets, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express confusion about notation and terminology, indicating a need for clarity on set operations and definitions. The discussion also highlights the potential for misunderstanding terms like "contained in" versus "subset."

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying set theory, particularly in the context of infinite sets and their properties, as well as individuals seeking clarification on set operations and notation.

Loren Booda
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Can two infinite sets differ by a finite number of elements?
 
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Take for example [itex]A = \mathbb{N}[/itex] and [itex]B = \mathbb{N} \setminus \left\{ 1 \right\}[/itex]. Then [itex]A[/itex] and [itex]B[/itex] are both infinite sets, and they share all elements except for 1. Or is this not what you mean by "differ"?
 
Loren Booda said:
Can two infinite sets differ by a finite number of elements?

I take your question as:

"Given two infinite sets A and B, is the symmetric difference [itex](A\cup B)\setminus(A\cap B)[/itex] ever nonempty?"

in which case the above post gives an example of when this can occur.
 
Please forgive my ignorance, but what does \ mean in this context?
 
Let' say A = {0, 1, 2, ...} and B = {1, 2, 3, ...}. A and B are both infinite, but A and B "differ" by one element. Namely 0.
 
Loren Booda said:
Please forgive my ignorance, but what does \ mean in this context?

Set subtraction (thus the LaTeX command \setminus). {1, 2, 3} \ {2} = {1, 3}.
 
CRGreathouse said:
I take your question as:

"Given two infinite sets A and B, is the symmetric difference [itex](A\cup B)\setminus(A\cap B)[/itex] ever nonempty?"

in which case the above post gives an example of when this can occur.

Loren Booda said:
Please forgive my ignorance, but what does \ mean in this context?
It's the "set difference". A\B is "All values that are in A but not in B". Think "A take away any members of A intersect B".
 
Thanks, all.
 
There isn't an inverse function to \, is there?
 
  • #10
Yes there is, the union. A \ B U B = A.
 
  • #11
Not quite; only if B is contained in A.
 
  • #12
secretman said:
Not quite; only if B is contained in A.

Only if B is a subset of A.

Using "is contained in" to mean "is a subset of" can cause an awful lot of confusion.
 

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