Can Manifolds Beyond Spacetime Revolutionize Quantum Gravity Unification?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of manifolds beyond traditional spacetime and their potential implications for unifying quantum gravity. Participants explore whether quantum objects could exist outside of conventional spacetime frameworks and what alternative mathematical structures might facilitate this unification.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Debate/contested, Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about existing research on manifolds beyond spacetime, suggesting that quantum objects may not be embedded in spacetime.
  • There is a call for clarification on what is meant by "beyond spacetime," with emphasis on defining the term before further discussion.
  • One participant references Ed Anderson's work, "The Space of Spaces," as a potential resource related to the topic.
  • Another participant proposes that non-manifold structures could provide a framework for understanding faster-than-light correlations, questioning how spacetime can be translated into these alternative mathematical structures.
  • One possible research avenue mentioned is Causal set theory by Rafael Sorkin, although it is noted that this may not align with the search for a different representation of quantum theory.
  • A participant introduces their own approach involving exotic smoothness and wild embeddings, suggesting a connection between these mathematical concepts and quantum states.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definition and implications of "beyond spacetime," indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the topic.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of terms used, particularly "beyond spacetime," and the assumptions underlying the proposed models and theories. Some mathematical steps and connections between concepts remain unexplored.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to researchers and students in theoretical physics, particularly those focused on quantum gravity, manifold theory, and alternative mathematical frameworks in physics.

jlcd
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Any papers about manifolds beyond spacetime? It's because the quantum objects may not be embedded in spacetime at all (which is where our current quantum gravity programmes work).. but other kind of manifolds where Einsteinian spacetime and quantum objects are emergent from them? What are the unification programmes along this line?
 
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You need to define 'beyond spacetime' before it can be addressed
 
Chronos said:
You need to define 'beyond spacetime' before it can be addressed

Beyond spacetime -> Non-manifolds based. I think I read the Perimeter Institute has mentioned this in one of the papers but forgot which is. Without manifolds.. how do you translate spacetime to another mathematical structure that can take the Bell Correlations even light years apart too? Remember that even if in default or ambient mode, no signal can be sent faster than light.. there is something faster than light correlations going on in the background. Who knows.. it may be the default or ambient mode.. meaning if you use the non-manifolds structure that give rise to quantum mechanics and relativity as emergent.. you can bypass the limitation of c in Spacetime... Most important.. what model can offer all this possibility? What research programme has looked into this?
 
One possible research program is the Causal set theory of Rafael Sorkin and co-workers. But it seems you look for another representation of quantum theory?
In that case check out the approaches using model (or topos) theory especially forcing.
Interesting for you is maybe also my own approach using exotic smootness where I identified wild embeddings (wild knots, Alexanders horned sphere etc.) with the quantum states. This approiach uses smooth manifolds but got naturally very wild mathematical objects (like foliations leading to factor III von Neumann algebras).
Here is a link: http://arxiv.org/abs/1601.06436
Smooth quantum gravity: Exotic smoothness and Quantum gravity
 

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