Can Mass Become Lower Than Rest Mass, Leading to Imaginary Velocity?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter NegativeGPA
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Imaginary Velocity
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the concept of mass in relation to velocity, specifically questioning whether mass can become lower than rest mass, leading to imaginary velocity. The equation m = m_o/√(1-(v^2/c^2)) is used to derive the implications of mass being less than rest mass, resulting in an imaginary velocity, which aligns with the theoretical existence of Tachyons. Participants emphasize that rest mass is a frame-invariant property and that obtaining imaginary results indicates the impossibility of achieving a lower mass than rest mass in any reference frame. The conversation concludes that all measurable observables in physics must be real numbers, reinforcing the impossibility of lower energy states.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of relativistic mass and energy equations, specifically E = mc² and m = m_o/√(1-(v²/c²))
  • Familiarity with the concept of Tachyons and their theoretical implications in physics
  • Knowledge of frame invariance and its significance in relativistic physics
  • Basic grasp of imaginary numbers and their role in physics equations
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the properties and implications of Tachyons in theoretical physics
  • Study the concept of frame invariance and its relevance to mass and energy
  • Explore the historical context and current usage of relativistic mass in physics literature
  • Investigate the mathematical treatment of imaginary numbers in physical equations
USEFUL FOR

Physicists, students of theoretical physics, and anyone interested in advanced concepts of mass, energy, and the implications of relativistic physics.

NegativeGPA
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
So, according to my understanding,

m= m_o/√(1-(v^2/c^2 ))

gives the mass of an object in respect to the object's original mass and its velocity. I wondered what happened if the mass of an object became lower than the rest mass? [I have no idea how this would happen, but it was a, what if it did? kind of question]

I made the substitution m=m_o-a for some arbitrary amount lower than the rest mass. After solving the equation for velocity, i got

v=c√(1-(m_o^2/(m_o-a)^2 )

in the equation, you can see that,
(m_o-a)^2 < m_o^2

thus,
(m_o^2/(m_o-a)^2 > 1

so we would end up with the square root of a negative number, giving the object with an imaginary velocity.

This matched my predictions because the reason I wondered this was because I wanted to know what was so special about the rest mass of an object. Why is that amount of energy in that amount of space a particle, and why does additional energy cause what we call velocity? So i assumed that a lower amount of energy would do somehow the opposite of velocity, but what is that?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I'm not sure exactly what your asking but this could help:
When the rest mass of an object becomes imaginary this is the description of a Tachyon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon
The Tachyon's velocity would hence be super-luminal.
 
Haha thanks, but I'm talking about an imaginary velocity, not an imaginary mass.

I'm asking what would happen if an object's mass became lower than its rest mass, and apparently it has an imaginary velocity. I'm asking if anyone has any idea what that means
 
I suppose the 'opposite of velocity' would make it so that the object required velocity to be added to it in order to be brought to a state of rest.
 
NegativeGPA said:
...what was so special about the rest mass of an object. Why is that amount of energy in that amount of space a particle, and why does additional energy cause what we call velocity? So i assumed that a lower amount of energy would do somehow the opposite of velocity, but what is that?

Well, the rest mass is special because it is frame invariant (this may seem slightly circular but the rest frame has unique properties, so we are not being arbitrary at least), so we may be justified in thinking it a property of the object rather than something just due to the way we look at it.

I think the fact that you are getting imaginary numbers out really just tells you that it is not possible to go to some reference frame where your object has a lower mass than in the rest frame. All measurable observables are real numbers in physics.
 
NegativeGPA said:
So, according to my understanding,

m= m_o/√(1-(v^2/c^2 ))
Please, do not use this relativistic mass. Apart from some old books, nobody uses it any more. You mean the energy of the particle:
E= m c^2 /√(1-(v^2/c^2 ))

At rest, the energy is E = m c^2. This is the lowest possible energy of the particle. If it moves, you add kinetic energy and the total energy has to increase. There is no way to get a lower energy, and therefore you should not expect a meaningful result in your calculation.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 55 ·
2
Replies
55
Views
6K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
984