Can microevolution in dogs be proven without speculation ?

[heliocentricprose]

Can microevolution in dogs be proven without "speculation"?

I am debating a fellow on a different website, and I'm worried my answer will not be as technical or correct. So, I'm asking for some help from the more learned minds that roam this place. : )

"""Me: Mutations occurred in the domestication of dogs.

Him: Can you present a reference?

With all due repect...everything you have posted has been nothing but speculation.

Why do you present speculation as fact?"""

This is my question to you: Can microevolution in dogs be proven without "speculation"?

""Me: We see mutations occur from generation to generation (microevolution).

Him: Where?

Either post a reference or retract that statement.""

Now, I know my statement is true. Microevolution occurs from generation to generation. I just don't know how to construct definitive and powerful response.

I would greatly appreciate your help, anyone's help. Thanks.

 

[iansmith]

If my memory is good, a paper came out in 2004 describing the evolution of dog they did analyses and came up with a phylogenic tree. I just can't find the paper.

the paper might be interesting, it looks at the evolution of dingos
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=15299143&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum

 

[iansmith]

I found a few abstract that might be interesting
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...&list_uids=12446907&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=12446908&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_DocSum

Doing a search with Canis lupus evolution in pubmed gives some good results
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=search&term=Canis+lupus+evolution

 

[heliocentricprose]

Thanks! How do you find these papers? I searched for a half-hour not being able to find anything.

 

[iansmith]

Pubmed is a search engine for citations and abstracts primarly in biomedical research journals.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed

You could also google scholar
http://scholar.google.com/

http://www.ifm.liu.se/biology/kurser/nbib20/Vila99_dogs.pdf
http://www.journals.royalsoc.ac.uk/(onvrdp45jb21wm55loo1cj55)/app/home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent&backto=issue,13,15;journal,97,309;linkingpublicationresults,1:102024,1

 

[Evo]

heliocentricprose, do you know how to use google? All I did was type in "dog evolution" and got this page http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=dog+evolution

If you want to get more specific, just add the specific word or words you're looking for. Hopefully you will find what you're looking for in all of the links provided in google.

Here's a scientific explanation. http://www.idir.net/~wolf2dog/wayne2.htm

Here's the phylogenic tree
http://www.nhm.org/exhibitions/dogs/images/phylogeny-lrg.jpg

Here's the evolution of dogs simplified. http://www.nhm.org/exhibitions/dogs/evolution/index.html

 

[Phobos]

Can microevolution in dogs be proven without "speculation"?

Egad, aren't 100s of years (if not millenia) of dog breeding sufficient proof of microevolutionary change?!?

 

[heliocentricprose]

Yes Phobos, I thought so. Some people need more, I guess.

@Evo :D yes I know how to use Google, but if I don't know what information is the best, how can I find what I need. Thanks for your input.

And iansmith, that's exactly what I was looking for, thanks.

 

[Phobos]

Yes Phobos, I thought so. Some people need more, I guess.

Many creationists accept some degree of microevolution anyway. Sounds like your friend was more likely heading toward the "all mutations are bad" argument.