Can particles exist without duality?

In summary, the conversation discusses the concept of wave-particle duality and its role in the understanding of quantum mechanics. The idea of duality has been abandoned in modern textbooks, and the double slit experiment does not prove its existence. The best way to understand quantum mechanics is to study it through a textbook.
  • #1
pittsburghjoe
17
0
Does Duality serve any other purpose than preventing investigators from fully understanding the framework of our reality?
 
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  • #2
What do you mean by "duality" here (there is more than on kind), or "framework of reality"?
Guess you could mean "wave particle duality", but there is no such thing outside secondary school, and pop sci tv shows (and sci fi).
Used to be a thing, it was an attempt to help investigators understand part of the physical world, and it actually did help investigators get that better understanding... aaand science moved on.
Still don't know what you mean by the other thing... and is the color of the text supposed to mean something?
 
  • #3
Yes, wave particle duality. I want to know if there is a natural reason for it to exist.

The color thing is just an embarrassing mistake, I fixed it.

framework = being able to understand quantum fully ..without mystery
 
  • #4
I just explained that "wave particle duality" does not exist... but maybe you are thinking of something else. What do you understand by this?

In general the natural reason for physical models to exist is that Nature behaves that way.
Unless you mean something else by "natural reason"... please be precise.
 
  • #5
It doesn't exist? Did I miss a memo somewhere? Doesn't the double slit experiment prove that it does?

I'm asking to go deeper than "cause, that's just the way it is". Lots of things have a purpose, maybe this magical particle-wave has one other than driving scientist crazy for the last 100 years.
 
  • #6
pittsburghjoe said:
Does Duality serve any other purpose than preventing investigators from fully understanding the framework of our reality?
Scientists make models which explain measurable things, then test them.
How is this preventing investigation of reality, have you a better idea?
 
  • #7
They are not allowed to measure ..that's the problem.

I have a theory, but I'm scolded on this site whenever I mention it.
 
  • #8
It doesn't exist? Did I miss a memo somewhere? Doesn't the double slit experiment prove that it does?
no it doesnt. the results are well understood using statistics.

I'm asking to go deeper than "cause, that's just the way it is". Lots of things have a purpose, maybe this magical particle-wave has one other than driving scientist crazy for the last 100 years.
... what do you mean by "purpose"? You keep using vague terms in non-standard contexts you can pseudoprove anything.

pittsburghjoe said:
They are not allowed to measure ..that's the problem.
nonsense... scientists are allowed to do any measurement they like... this is how scientific theories get support, or are disproved.

I have a theory, but I'm scolded on this site whenever I mention it.
... get it peer reviewed and published first, and you won't get scolded.
I suggest you learn how QM works first though.
 
  • #9
Statistics that help you sleep at night ..even though you know it doesn't explain the real question.

purpose! Yes, like: "do I have a purpose in life?" I want some positive feadback on duality, cause the only thing I can think of is negative.

Yes, they can do the measurement and then let the quantum scale laugh in their face

Are you offering to review it? haha
 
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  • #10
pittsburghjoe said:
It doesn't exist? Did I miss a memo somewhere?
Apparently so - the notion of wave-particle duality was abandoned when the modern mathematical form of quantum mechanics was discovered in the 1920s. You won't find it in any textbook written in the past half-century or more, except perhaps as a historical footnote.
Doesn't the double slit experiment prove that it does?
No, as that experiment is also consistent with the modern formalism.

I'm asking to go deeper than "cause, that's just the way it is".
The way to do that is to work your through a serious textbook and learn what quantum mechanics really is.
 
  • #11
As those thread is based on mistaken assumptions about what the theory is and says, we can close it.
 

1. Can particles exist without duality?

The concept of duality refers to the idea that particles can exist as both waves and particles simultaneously. While this is a fundamental principle in quantum mechanics, there is still debate among scientists about whether particles can exist without duality. Some theories, such as the pilot-wave theory, propose that particles can exist solely as particles without a wave component. However, this is still a topic of ongoing research and there is no definitive answer at this time.

2. What is the evidence for particles existing with duality?

The evidence for particles existing with duality comes from various experiments in quantum mechanics. One of the most famous is the double-slit experiment, which showed that particles can exhibit wave-like behavior, such as interference patterns, when passing through two slits. Additionally, the photoelectric effect and the behavior of particles in particle accelerators also support the concept of duality.

3. Can particles exist as pure waves?

No, particles cannot exist as pure waves. This is because particles have mass and momentum, which are properties of particles that cannot be explained by waves alone. However, particles can exhibit wave-like behavior in certain situations, leading to the concept of duality.

4. How does the concept of duality relate to the uncertainty principle?

The uncertainty principle, proposed by Werner Heisenberg, states that the more accurately we know the position of a particle, the less accurately we can know its momentum, and vice versa. This principle is closely related to the concept of duality, as particles can exist as both waves and particles simultaneously. The uncertainty principle helps to explain why we cannot know both the wave and particle properties of a particle at the same time.

5. Is there a way to observe particles without changing their behavior?

No, there is no way to observe particles without changing their behavior. This is due to the inherent nature of particles in quantum mechanics, where the act of observation itself affects the behavior of the particle. This is known as the observer effect and is a fundamental aspect of quantum mechanics that cannot be avoided.

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