Can Photons Bounce Back? | Meeting of Photons Hello!

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the question of whether photons can bounce back from other photons, exploring concepts related to photon interactions, interference, and potential particle creation under specific conditions. The scope includes theoretical considerations and speculative ideas about photon behavior in high-density environments.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that photons do not interact with each other under normal conditions, emphasizing that any interaction would require extremely high photon densities, which has not been proven.
  • Others mention that while photons do not interact directly, they can exhibit phenomena like interference, which is described as a summation rather than an interaction.
  • A participant introduces the concept of Delbrück scattering as a theoretical indirect interaction between photons, noting its extremely low probability and lack of observation.
  • Light-by-light scattering is mentioned as a phenomenon that has been observed, but it is characterized as a very small effect and difficult to measure.
  • There is a discussion about the mechanisms behind photon interactions, with some participants questioning why photons crossing each other do not result in any significant interaction.
  • A new participant raises a question about electromagnetic waves and their ability to superimpose, suggesting a connection to energy production and particle-antiparticle pairs.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that photons do not interact in a conventional sense, but there are multiple competing views regarding the conditions under which interactions might occur, such as in high-density scenarios or through indirect mechanisms. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these interactions and the nature of photon behavior.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the conditions necessary for photon interactions and the definitions of terms like interference and interaction. There are also limitations in the understanding of the mechanisms involved in observed phenomena like light-by-light scattering.

menniandscience
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hello!
q: can photons bounce back from photons?
i'm thinking about a ray of light in space crossing in front of my eyes but i can't see it off course since it doesn't hit my eyes or particles like dust. so if i want to see it, can i turn on a flashlight making the ray hit by the rays of the flashlight so some of the photons will bounce back [to my eyes] after hitting the photons of the ray making it possible for me to see the ray.
thanks
 
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Hi,
The short answer is no. Quite strictly no.

If conditions are right, you would rather have particle creation. There is speculation that at insanely high photon densities, photons may interact, but this hasn't really been proven, and it's beyond conventionnal theories.
 
No. Photons do not interact.

There can be effects in matter where there are non-linear effect but that is due to the photon interacting with the charged particles in the matter.
 
Dr Lots-o'watts said:
Hi,
The short answer is no. Quite strictly no.

If conditions are right, you would rather have particle creation. There is speculation that at insanely high photon densities, photons may interact, but this hasn't really been proven, and it's beyond conventionnal theories.

what about interference?
 
Interference is not interaction. Interference is sumation. If you put two dollars in a bank account, you have two dollars, but each of them doesn't know about the other. The same with photons.
 
Dr Lots-o'watts said:
Interference is not interaction. Interference is sumation. If you put two dollars in a bank account, you have two dollars, but each of them doesn't know about the other.
But make sure you put them in both face up! Otherwise you will have zero dollars! :biggrin:
 
Dr Lots-o'watts said:
Interference is not interaction. Interference is sumation. If you put two dollars in a bank account, you have two dollars, but each of them doesn't know about the other. The same with photons.

that is the quantum perception is it? but you can look at it as a wave and then the waves are changing, like the tops gets higher
 
Photons can in principle interact indirectly with each other via Delbrück scattering, but the probability is expected to be extremely tiny and as far as I know has not actually been observed (yet).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delbruck_scattering
 
jtbell said:
Photons can in principle interact indirectly with each other via Delbrück scattering, but the probability is expected to be extremely tiny and as far as I know has not actually been observed (yet).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delbruck_scattering

what about light changes in elctromagnetic (not sure, maybe just magnetic) surrounding (dont want to say fields because they are not made of photns, but a magnet emits photons).

the wiki expample, i feel, not quite good. I am asking about hitting of two photons like two soccer balls
thanks
 
  • #10
Light-by-light scattering has been observed. But it is a very, very, very difficult measurement because the effect is so small. It is a very small quantum mechanical correction to a classical theory where there is identically zero interaction.
 
  • #11
Vanadium 50 said:
Light-by-light scattering has been observed. But it is a very, very, very difficult measurement because the effect is so small. It is a very small quantum mechanical correction to a classical theory where there is identically zero interaction.

ok so no significant interaction, why is it? why two photons crossing each other and nothing happens?
 
  • #12
Because photons interact only with charged particles and photons are uncharged.
 
  • #13
Vanadium 50 said:
Light-by-light scattering has been observed. But it is a very, very, very difficult measurement because the effect is so small. It is a very small quantum mechanical correction to a classical theory where there is identically zero interaction.

What is the mechanism?
 
  • #14
This is my first time, I tried to find the thread which best fits my question, so please excuse me if I have made a mistake:

As far as I know e-m waves 'can superimpose' can two waves meet to form enough energy to produce particle and anti-particle pair. Thanks
 

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