Can Quantum Phenomena Be Explained by Many Interacting Classical Worlds?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the paper "Quantum Phenomena Modeled by Interactions between Many Classical Worlds" by Michael J. W. Hall, Dirk-André Deckert, and Howard M. Wiseman. Participants explore the implications of modeling quantum phenomena through a framework of many classical worlds interacting with each other, examining both theoretical and experimental aspects of this approach.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express interest in the idea that quantum effects could arise from interactions between classical worlds, suggesting that this model could reproduce various quantum phenomena.
  • One participant raises concerns about the classical nature of the model, noting that the world is relativistic and questioning how different interpretations can be experimentally distinguished.
  • Another participant suggests that a derivation of spin-statistics from this formulation would be necessary for the model to be compelling.
  • Some participants mention related works and models, including a similar approach proposed by Charles T. Sebens that combines aspects of Bohmian mechanics and the many-worlds interpretation.
  • Criticism of the interpretation is noted, with references to external critiques that use strong language, though some participants caution against taking such critiques too seriously.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of interest and skepticism regarding the many interacting worlds model. There is no consensus on its validity or implications, and multiple competing views remain regarding its interpretation and potential applications.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions highlight the need for further work to establish the model's utility, such as developing polynomial-time algorithms for calculations. There are also references to the limitations of current interpretations and the challenges in experimentally validating different models.

DrClaude
Mentor
Messages
8,477
Reaction score
5,697
What do you guys think about this?

Quantum Phenomena Modeled by Interactions between Many Classical Worlds
Michael J. W. Hall, Dirk-André Deckert, and Howard M. Wiseman

Phys. Rev X 4, 041013 (2014)

We investigate whether quantum theory can be understood as the continuum limit of a mechanical theory, in which there is a huge, but finite, number of classical “worlds,” and quantum effects arise solely from a universal interaction between these worlds, without reference to any wave function. Here, a “world” means an entire universe with well-defined properties, determined by the classical configuration of its particles and fields. In our approach, each world evolves deterministically, probabilities arise due to ignorance as to which world a given observer occupies, and we argue that in the limit of infinitely many worlds the wave function can be recovered (as a secondary object) from the motion of these worlds. We introduce a simple model of such a “many interacting worlds” approach and show that it can reproduce some generic quantum phenomena—such as Ehrenfest’s theorem, wave packet spreading, barrier tunneling, and zero-point energy—as a direct consequence of mutual repulsion between worlds. Finally, we perform numerical simulations using our approach. We demonstrate, first, that it can be used to calculate quantum ground states, and second, that it is capable of reproducing, at least qualitatively, the double-slit interference phenomenon.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Demystifier
Physics news on Phys.org
Looks interesting. And it does tie in with something I have always had a sneaky suspicion about - the worlds of eternal inflation may have something to do with the worlds of MW.

The world is not classical - its relativistic - that would be my biggest issue.

But like any interpretation - experimentally how do you tell the difference?

Until that can be done I think what interpretation you prefer reveals more about psychology than actual physics - just my view.

Thanks
Bill
 
Interestingly Griffith University where one of the authors is located is just up the road from where I live.

On the way home today the popular press via the radio were all announcing this as some huge breakthrough by local physicists.

Of course I had a bit of a chuckle.

Thanks
Bill
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: ripe90
DrClaude said:
What do you guys think about this?

Quantum Phenomena Modeled by Interactions between Many Classical Worlds
Michael J. W. Hall, Dirk-André Deckert, and Howard M. Wiseman

Phys. Rev X 4, 041013 (2014)
Downloaded. The abstract made me do it. Well, that and you. Thanks. Time to go to work on this. :)
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: bhobba
DrClaude said:
What do you guys think about this?

Quantum Phenomena Modeled by Interactions between Many Classical Worlds
Michael J. W. Hall, Dirk-André Deckert, and Howard M. Wiseman

Phys. Rev X 4, 041013 (2014)

And here's an arxiv link for those who can not tunnel through paywalls:
"Quantum Phenomena Modeled by Interactions between Many Classical Worlds"
http://arxiv.org/abs/1402.6144
Tunnel to the pdf directly here.

EDIT: Oops, sorry o:), I just discovered that DrClaude's link was not defended by any paywall. Well, well...
 
DennisN said:
EDIT: Oops, sorry o:), I just discovered that DrClaude's link was not defended by any paywall. Well, well...
Yes, Physical Review X is open access.
 
I think the paper is very interesting, though in order for this to really be compelling I think they'd have to show a derivation of spin-statistics from this formulation. However with a bit more work this could be very useful. I'd like to know if one could write polynomial-time algorithms to do calculations that give good approximations to quantum results with this method.
 
Last edited:
Here's a video presentation of that model:
http://www.emqm13.org/abstracts/presentation-videos/video-howard-wiseman/

And a slide presentation:
http://www.emqm13.org/wp-content/pdf/Wiseman-EmQM13.pdf

Also discussed in FQXi:
http://www.fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/2276

Charles T. Sebens also independently proposed a somewhat similar model:
Here I explore a novel no-collapse interpretation of quantum mechanics which combines aspects of two familiar and well-developed alternatives, Bohmian mechanics and the many-worlds interpretation. Despite reproducing the empirical predictions of quantum mechanics, the theory looks surprisingly classical. All there is at the fundamental level are particles interacting via Newtonian forces. There is no wave function. However, there are many
worlds.
Quantum Mechanics as Classical Physics
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1403.0014v2.pdf

It seems to be a combination of Bohmian and MWI interpretation?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: julcab12 and bhobba
Sounds interesting, I'll take a look when I can. :)
 
  • #12
Recent Perimeter lecture on the topic by Dirk-André Deckert:

Quantum phenomena modeled by interactions between many classical worlds

http://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/videos/quantum-phenomena-modelled-interactions-between-many-classical-worlds
 
  • #14
ripe90 said:
It is quite strong language used in my opinion.
That's typical for Lubos Motl. I would advise not to take this guy too seriously.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: bohm2 and bhobba
  • #15
I think he has good ideas, but the way of writing should be better. I also saw one video with him and he was speaking in normal way. I do not know why the texts are so aggressive.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
694
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
831
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K