News Can Santorum Recover from His Latest Gaffe?

[WhoWee]

Oh no, I never saw her as wanting to run, just in it for the money. It is going to be an interesting election... maybe fun, I'll grant that. Name-Jokes aside, Priebus is also a much better choice for the RNC than Steele. I'm not a fan of the RNC, or the DNC, but there's disagreeing, and seeing people's money wasted on strippers.

The GOP has to figure out just what to do with the tea party, and the democrats have to figure out what to do with themselves.

Shouldn't the Dems run on their accomplishments? Biden sent an email to supporters last week stipulating 3 million saved or created jobs (LOL). I have a copy but not sure if rules allow it to be posted (?).

 

[nismaratwork]

Shouldn't the Dems run on their accomplishments? Biden sent an email to supporters last week stipulating 3 million saved or created jobs (LOL). I have a copy but not sure if rules allow it to be posted (?).

Eh... yeah, but what party does that? Good or bad, the democrats are the ones who've been pushing legislation through, which is technically an accomplishment. I'm not sure what the Republicans have to offer except a legacy of criticism and inaction.

For me, Boehner's comments (and every other member, D, R, and I) after meeting with Hu Jintao, which lacked ANY MENTION of China's practice of rigging its currency says it all: Both sides thrive on image, and both have "true believers"... mostly though, it's just a way to get elected. The passions and beliefs of the people don't seem to translate into legislation by either party, and the Tea Party is just the GOP sans merci.

 

[WhoWee]

Eh... yeah, but what party does that? Good or bad, the democrats are the ones who've been pushing legislation through, which is technically an accomplishment. I'm not sure what the Republicans have to offer except a legacy of criticism and inaction.

For me, Boehner's comments (and every other member, D, R, and I) after meeting with Hu Jintao, which lacked ANY MENTION of China's practice of rigging its currency says it all: Both sides thrive on image, and both have "true believers"... mostly though, it's just a way to get elected. The passions and beliefs of the people don't seem to translate into legislation by either party, and the Tea Party is just the GOP sans merci.

Personally, I don't thin anyone (including Reid or Boehner) should be commenting on China during a State visit. Further, I don't think anyone except President Obama or Secretary of State Clinton should be talking directly to the Chinese leader.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

I was 100% sure that this thread was about Sarah Palin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fQ_Zl5eZnw

 

[WhoWee]

I was 100% sure that this thread was about Sarah Palin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fQ_Zl5eZnw

Why?

However, a good thread topic might be a comparison of Palin to Obe Wan Kenobe?

 

[nismaratwork]

Personally, I don't thin anyone (including Reid or Boehner) should be commenting on China during a State visit. Further, I don't think anyone except President Obama or Secretary of State Clinton should be talking directly to the Chinese leader.

Agreed.

Oh, and if I had to guess wildly, I'd say this is DA's wink-and-a-nudge way of responding to your Obama comments. I could be wrong, but I think it's meant semi-playfully, semi-annoyed... again, I could be completely wrong.

DA: Naughty! Two wrongs do NOT make a right! It's funny... but not right.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

However, a good thread topic might be a comparison of Palin to Obe Wan Kenobe?

I’m with you all the way bro.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

DA: Naughty! Two wrongs do NOT make a right! It's funny... but not right.

This was the only 'solution', because the original is worse. Sorry.

 

[nismaratwork]

This was the only 'solution', because the original is worse. Sorry.

It's OK, I really like the "Evil Ben" picture.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Oh nismar, I forgot to say – You do read my mind buddy!

 

[WhoWee]

Not the way I recall Obe Wan - more of a good guy struck down by the agents of the dark side only to rise again as part of the force (for good) behind the scenes helping our young heros to counter the evil empires of the world. LOL

 

[nismaratwork]

Not the way I recall Obe Wan - more of a good guy struck down by the agents of the dark side only to rise again as part of the force (for good) behind the scenes helping our young heros to counter the evil empires of the world. LOL

He DOES make a really EVIL looking sith though, doesn't he? Yeek.

 

[lisab]

Not the way I recall Obe Wan - more of a good guy struck down by the agents of the dark side only to rise again as part of the force (for good) behind the scenes helping our young heros to counter the evil empires of the world. LOL

Oh! You mean Bill Clinton, right?

 

[WhoWee]

He DOES make a really EVIL looking sith though, doesn't he? Yeek.

I'm really glad you approve of my comparison of Palin to Obe Wan - may the force be with her to combat the evil socialist agenda. LOL (sorry - just having fun)

 

[nismaratwork]

I'm really glad you approve of my comparison of Palin to Obe Wan - may the force be with her to combat the evil socialist agenda. LOL (sorry - just having fun)

I know, and Lisab too. I think at some point, as much as we often disagree on the issues... that catharsis is needed.

Lisab: I wasn't aware that Clinton knew how to put his lightsaber away? That said, I'm just green with envy that you thought of that! Great comeback.

 

[Al68]

Interesting. So let me imagine that a young couple is using contraceptive methods such as oral pills (quite common) and the young woman gets pregnant nevertheless. It is rather rare, but does happen. Their free will was to prevent the pregnancy, and science failed them.

That would seem more like their own ignorance failing them, if they thought there wasn't a significant chance of creating a fetus.

The failure of the contraceptive didn't create the fetus. "Failure to prevent" is different from "causing" as a matter of simple logic. The couple's choice to have sex caused the pregnancy.

 

[nismaratwork]

That would seem more like their own ignorance failing them, if they thought there wasn't a significant chance of creating a fetus.

The failure of the contraceptive didn't create the fetus. "Failure to prevent" is different from "causing" as a matter of simple logic. The couple's choice to have sex caused the pregnancy.

Right, because they depended on a, as humanino said, science. Science failed them in one area, but in another, it can help again (yes I'm talking about abortion).

 

[Al68]

Right, because they depended on a, as humanino said, science. Science failed them in one area, but in another, it can help again (yes I'm talking about abortion).

Science told them they could get pregnant while using the contraceptive. Their ignorance of science failed them, not science itself, if they thought they couldn't get pregnant.

Can I blame science if I shoot myself playing Russian Roulette, since science says putting only one round in the revolver (instead of six) reduces my chances of getting shot? If I get shot, is it because science failed me?

 

[WhoWee]

Science told them they could get pregnant while using the contraceptive. Their ignorance of science failed them, not science itself, if they thought they couldn't get pregnant.

Can I blame science if I shoot myself playing Russian Roulette, since science says putting only one round in the revolver (instead of six) reduces my chances of getting shot? If I get shot, is it because science failed me?

I saw a question on a profile test recently that asked if the odds were better with 1 round in a 6 round revolver or 1 round in a 12 round automatic clip. They said most people missed the question.

 

[nismaratwork]

Science told them they could get pregnant while using the contraceptive. Their ignorance of science failed them, not science itself, if they thought they couldn't get pregnant.

Can I blame science if I shoot myself playing Russian Roulette, since science says putting only one round in the revolver (instead of six) reduces my chances of getting shot? If I get shot, is it because science failed me?

I don't know... I suppose if resurrection were an option you'd have said something relevant to the discussion. The fact is that contraceptives, while sold with warnings, are often expected and intended to be absolute. When that fails, there are other means that people can avail themselves of, either chemical or procedural.

The only case I see you making here is that you don't like abortion. We both know that the crux of marketing lies in exploiting human weakness, such as those one WhoWee points out. In the classic, "You have three doors, behind one of which is a prize! You open door #1, and it's empty, but you now have a chance to switch your choice, or stay... what do you do?" turns out that plenty of people stay, or switch for all fo the wrong reasons. You switch, and your odds increase... period, but are you saying that our population control should be predicated on a working knowledge of math and statistics?

Lets get people literate first... which by the way, will be easier if they stay in school instead of carrying a child to term.

 

[Al68]

I don't know... I suppose if resurrection were an option you'd have said something relevant to the discussion. The fact is that contraceptives, while sold with warnings, are often expected and intended to be absolute.

So it's not "relevant" that that intention is unfulfilled and the expectation false according to science? When the claim was they were "failed by science"? It makes no sense to ignore science in favor of a false expectation then blame the result on science.

Expecting contraception to be absolute is ignorance.

The only case I see you making here is that you don't like abortion.

Why would I need to make that case? You can't just take my word for it? I hate abortion. I think it's despicable in the case of consensual sex.

I'm pro-choice, not pro-abortion. I believe abortion is wrong, and using force to prevent abortion is wrong. There really is no contradiction there.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Oh! You mean Bill Clinton, right?

Laser Touché!

 

[DevilsAvocado]

nismar, it looks like the smartypants are getting close to the "final solution", introduced by the "not witch" from Delaware - Christine O'Donnell:

Let’s forbid sex!​

This solution is elegant and simple; no unborn Americans will never ever have their constitutional rights violated again. Thank god.

 

[nismaratwork]

So it's not "relevant" that that intention is unfulfilled and the expectation false according to science? When the claim was they were "failed by science"? It makes no sense to ignore science in favor of a false expectation then blame the result on science.

Expecting contraception to be absolute is ignorance.Why would I need to make that case? You can't just take my word for it? I hate abortion. I think it's despicable in the case of consensual sex.

I'm pro-choice, not pro-abortion. I believe abortion is wrong, and using force to prevent abortion is wrong. There really is no contradiction there.

I understand, and don't think I'm not appreciative that you were up front when you first posted. I'm saying that the case you're making is just in support of your dislike, not in support of WHY it should be disliked. That is another debate however, and really I don't want to step on your beliefs when it comes to lives.

I'm not saying that you should expect absolute contraception, but I am saying that contraception is a positive human invention, and when it fails other means are available. It IS a failure of science and engineering, even if it's inevitable to some degree, but you're right that it's not a LIE.

Unfortunately I think DA is right: the consistent argument to make given your beliefs would be to abstain from sex if possible, unless you're able and willing to accept all possible consequences, including a child. I just don't believe that's possible, and frankly... I don't envy how you must feel. I don't think we can go any further in this vein, in this thread... and I don't know that we should in another thread. I'm OK backing down on this honestly, in an academic setting.

 

[Al68]

I'm saying that the case you're making is just in support of your dislike, not in support of WHY it should be disliked.

I was making the case that contraception is not perfect, so a choice to have sex is a choice to assume some risk of getting pregnant.

That's true regardless of whether I like or dislike abortion. And it's true regardless of what view someone uses that fact to support. Contraception isn't "absolute".

I'm not saying that you should expect absolute contraception...

I was responding to your statement that it was "often" expected to be absolute. Maybe I misinterpreted you.

 

[nismaratwork]

I was making the case that contraception is not perfect, so a choice to have sex is a choice to assume some risk of getting pregnant.

That's true regardless of whether I like or dislike abortion. And it's true regardless of what view someone uses that fact to support. Contraception isn't "absolute".

I agree with your premise, and the conclusion that contraception isn't absolute. I do however see a difference in the intent of a couple who's condom fails, and one who just doesn't care, or... other things I can't say here. I don't see it in quite as absolute terms I guess, but the endpoint you describe does exist, I can't deny it.

What to do about it however?

You're one of the VERY few people on or offline who's come right out in presence and said, "I'm pro-choice, and anti-abortion", then proceeds to make a perfectly logical case. I'm more interested in your views then people who just ignore any moral angle, or those who fixate on it. So many people seem unable to weigh anything, but the rights they believe the fetus has, but you do and despite hating what it entails... support the right to freedom.

I guess I want to understand how you manage to do that, when so many others seem unable to do anything except cling to the poles of this issue. You don't need to respond if you don't want, I'm just very curious. You do realize that your view, while not totally unique, is still pretty rare?

 

[Al68]

You're one of the VERY few people on or offline who's come right out in presence and said, "I'm pro-choice, and anti-abortion", then proceeds to make a perfectly logical case. I'm more interested in your views then people who just ignore any moral angle, or those who fixate on it. So many people seem unable to weigh anything, but the rights they believe the fetus has, but you do and despite hating what it entails... support the right to freedom.

I guess I want to understand how you manage to do that, when so many others seem unable to do anything except cling to the poles of this issue. You don't need to respond if you don't want, I'm just very curious. You do realize that your view, while not totally unique, is still pretty rare?

Well, thanks, but I don't think it's that rare at all. I think most pro-choice people dislike, if not detest, abortion. And I think most do think that a fetus has rights, but not a right to the forced servitude of its mother for 9 months. They just don't come out and say it that way. I think very few people would consider themselves "pro-abortion".

As an example, it's considered murder for anyone to purposely kill a fetus if it's not the will of the mother. Because the fetus does have the right to live if it requires no forced servitude. And knowingly murdering a pregnant woman is two counts of murder.

And many, including me, oppose those laws that prohibit nurses and doctors from giving medical care, or any care, including feeding, to a live infant, outside its mother's body, that survives an attempted abortion.

 

[Al68]

I saw a question on a profile test recently that asked if the odds were better with 1 round in a 6 round revolver or 1 round in a 12 round automatic clip. They said most people missed the question.

Depends on how it's set up. A common method for eliminating a tendency to flinch is to have a partner load a clip with mostly duds, so that the target shooter can easily notice a flinch, and correct it.

I assume that wasn't the intent of that question, but that's what came to my mind in that context, since I've used that method myself.

 

[nismaratwork]

Well, thanks, but I don't think it's that rare at all. I think most pro-choice people dislike, if not detest, abortion. And I think most do think that a fetus has rights, but not a right to the forced servitude of its mother for 9 months. They just don't come out and say it that way. I think very few people would consider themselves "pro-abortion".

As an example, it's considered murder for anyone to purposely kill a fetus if it's not the will of the mother. Because the fetus does have the right to live if it requires no forced servitude. And knowingly murdering a pregnant woman is two counts of murder.

And many, including me, oppose those laws that prohibit nurses and doctors from giving medical care, or any care including feeding, to a live infant, outside its mother's body, that survives an attempted abortion.

I agree that the laws contain inconsistencies, but in the context of a crime, the logic seems to hold as far as the law goes.