Can Stirling's Formula Derive the Normal Distribution from the Binomial?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter RedX
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Binomial Normal
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the derivation of the normal distribution from the binomial distribution using Stirling's formula. Participants explore the mathematical steps involved in this derivation, including the challenges faced and the implications of different probability values.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the binomial distribution and attempts to show its reduction to the normal distribution using Stirling's formula, but encounters an extra term linear in m-np that complicates the derivation.
  • Another participant suggests that a detailed derivation would be helpful and mentions the central limit theorem as a potential tool for this discussion.
  • A detailed mathematical expansion is provided by a participant, who sets m=pn+k and uses power series to analyze the logarithmic terms, ultimately leading to an expression that includes an unexpected factor.
  • One participant raises a concern about the convergence of Stirling's approximation for n! as n approaches infinity and questions its application to combinations.
  • A link to a Wikipedia page is shared, which contains a derivation related to the De Moivre–Laplace theorem, potentially offering insights into the problem at hand.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the derivation steps and the implications of Stirling's approximation. There is no consensus on the resolution of the extra term or the convergence issues raised.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations in the discussion include unresolved mathematical steps and the dependence on the choice of probability p, particularly regarding its effect on the derivation's outcome.

RedX
Messages
963
Reaction score
3
I want to show that the binomial distribution:

P(m)=\frac{n!}{(n-m)!m!}p^m(1-p)^{n-m}

using Stirling's formula:

n!=n^n e^{-n} \sqrt{2\pi n}

reduces to the normal distribution:

P(m)=\frac{1}{\sqrt{2 \pi n}} \frac{1}{\sqrt{p(1-p)}}<br /> <br /> exp[-\frac{1}{2}\frac{(m-np)^2}{np(1-p)}]<br />

Unfortunately, I keep on getting an extra term linear in m-np:

exp[\frac{m-np}{2n}\frac{2p-1}{(1-p)p}]

This term is zero if p=1/2, but I want to show that the binomial distribution reduces to the normal distribution for any probability p.

Has anyone else had this problem, as I'm sure this derivation is fairly common?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
It would help to show your derivation in detail. In any case the central limit theorem could be used.
 
mathman said:
It would help to show your derivation in detail. In any case the central limit theorem could be used.

Sure. It's a little bit lengthy though, so it might take some work to read it:

<br /> P(m)=\frac{\sqrt{2 \pi n}n^ne^{-n}}{\sqrt{2 \pi m}m^me^{-m}*\sqrt{2 \pi (n-m)}(n-m)^{(n-m)}e^{-(n-m)}}p^m(1-p)^{n-m}=<br /> <br /> \frac{n^{n+1}}{\sqrt{2 \pi n}*m^{m+\frac{1}{2}}*(n-m)^{(n-m)+\frac{1}{2}}}p^m(1-p)^{n-m}<br />

\frac{n^{n+1}}{\sqrt{2 \pi n}*m^{m+\frac{1}{2}}*(n-m)^{(n-m)+\frac{1}{2}}}p^m(1-p)^{n-m}=<br /> <br /> \frac{1}{\sqrt{2\pi n}} \exp[\log[\frac{n^{n+1}}{m^{m+\frac{1}{2}}*(n-m)^{(n-m)+\frac{1}{2}}}p^m(1-p)^{n-m}]]<br />


\frac{1}{\sqrt{2\pi n}} \exp(\log[\frac{n^{n+1}}{m^{m+\frac{1}{2}}*(n-m)^{(n-m)+\frac{1}{2}}}p^m(1-p)^{n-m}]]=<br /> \frac{1}{\sqrt{2\pi n}}\exp[(n+1) \log n -(m+^1/_2) \log m <br />

-(n-m+^1/_2) \log (n-m)+m\log p + (n-m) \log[1-p] ]

Now I set m=pn+k in the expression, where pn is the average number of successes, and k is the difference from the average, and use that k<<<pn to expand the logarithms in power series up to second order (i.e., ln(1+x)=x-.5x^2).

So for example:

(m+^1/_2) \log m=(pn+k+^1/_2)\log (pn+k)=<br /> (pn+k+^1/_2)[\log (pn)+\log (1+k/(pn))]=<br /> (pn+k+^1/_2)[\log (pn)+k/(pn)-.5 k^2/(pn)^2]<br /> <br />

After keeping all terms up to second order, I get:

P(m)=\frac{1}{\sqrt{2 \pi n}}\frac{1}{\sqrt{p(1-p)}}\exp[-\frac{1}{2}\frac{k^2}{np(1-p)}] \exp[\frac{k}{2n} \frac{2p-1}{(1-p)p}]

and that last factor doesn't make sense, but I've checked my results three times and it keeps coming out. But if p=1/2, then it becomes 1, and I do get the normal distribution.
 
Just a thought: Stirlings approximation for n! doesn't converge to n! as n approaches infinity. However the ratio of the approximation to n! converges to 1. Does anyone know the situation whe we use Stirings approximations for C_r^n ?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
6K
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K