Can the expansion of space affect the speed of light?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the implications of the expansion of space on the speed of light, particularly in the context of cosmology. Participants explore how the expansion of the universe might affect the propagation of light over vast distances, raising questions about the relationship between light and the expanding fabric of space.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how light from distant objects can be observed if the space between them is expanding faster than light can travel, suggesting that light might be "stuck" in this expansion.
  • Another participant prompts consideration of a non-constant expansion rate and its effects on light emitted from objects near the threshold of receding faster than light.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that while objects cannot travel away from each other faster than light, the expansion of space could lead to time dilation effects, complicating the relationship between distance and light travel.
  • One participant introduces a thought experiment comparing the travel of a photon in an expanding universe to walking up a down escalator, suggesting that if space expands rapidly enough, the photon may never reach its destination from an external viewpoint.
  • Another participant cautions against applying special relativity to general relativistic effects, noting that there is no valid frame of reference for a photon, which complicates the discussion of its perspective.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of space expansion for the speed of light and the nature of observations in an expanding universe. There is no consensus on how these concepts interrelate, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of applying special relativity to general relativistic scenarios, highlighting the need for careful consideration of the underlying principles governing light and space expansion.

Ghostcrown
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If the space between any two objects is expanding at a rate faster than light itself can travel, how is it that we're observing light from things so far away?
One would think that the expansion of space affects light too, such that the space between the emitted light and the destination of said light expands so quickly that the light is stuck in this expansion and never reaches its destination. If I am mistaken, please correct me.
 
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Hi, Ghostcrown. Since you seem to have a good grounding intuition, rather than directly answer, I'd like you to consider what would be observed in a universe where the expansion rate is not constant.

Say, it goes down for at least a period in the history of the universe. What would happen to the light emitted from an object just outside the radius beyond which objects recede faster than light?
 
I'm interested in the answer to this question too. I'm going to try to answer it myself then someone more knowledgeable can correct me.

Objects can not travel away from each other faster than light, no matter what space is doing. As you get further and further apart, space expands faster and faster, causing time to get slower and slower. If space expands at such a rate that two objects are flying away from each other faster than light, from the perspective of one of them, the other one is not emitting light and must be traveling backwards in time, they no longer exist in the same spacetime? Wait... that doesn't sound right...

Lemme try Bandersnatch's thought experiment: a photon leaves an object and zooms across the expanding universe. From every perspective other than the photon's it's traveling at the speed of light, so as space expands, its like walking up a down escalator, it'll make progress until the down speed equals it's travel speed. If it's expanding fast enough, the outside viewpoint would never see the photon hit the other object. From the point of view of the photon though, traveling at the speed of light, the entire universe has no length (limit (1 / sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2)) as v -> c = 0?), so it should be able to reach any position instantaneously. Wait... that's a paradox. :/

My intuition is that things will accelerate away from us closer and closer to the speed of light, but time at the edge will get slower and slower, preventing any physical objects from moving at >c in relation to each other.

So... what would actually happen?
 
@newjerseyrunner you shouldn't try to apply special relativity to a general relativistic effect such as the expansion of space. The latter, being more general, already includes all space-time related effects.
There's also some reason to suspect you may need revising SR - there is no such thing as 'the point of view of a photon'. There is no frame of reference in which a photon is at rest.
 
Oh, ok that makes sense.
 

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