Can things exist/develope without gravity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether things, such as particles and life, can exist or develop without the presence of gravity. Participants explore theoretical implications, the role of fundamental forces, and the conditions necessary for the emergence of life and matter.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express doubt that particles or life could exist without gravity, suggesting that gravity is essential for the formation of structures in the universe.
  • Others argue that while particles might be possible, life would be highly improbable without gravity, as it is necessary for creating the conditions (like a "soup") from which life can evolve.
  • One participant proposes that electromagnetic forces might be insufficient for attraction in a universe devoid of gravity, leading to a cold and uninhabitable environment.
  • Another viewpoint suggests that while gravity is not needed for processes like Big Bang Nucleosynthesis, it is crucial for stellar formation and the potential energy required for nuclear reactions.
  • Some participants discuss the relationship between gravity and other forces, speculating that gravity and electromagnetic forces might be interconnected in some way.
  • There are humorous interjections about the concept of "soup" and references to popular culture, indicating a lighter tone amidst the technical discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not reach a consensus, as multiple competing views remain regarding the necessity of gravity for the existence of particles and life. Some assert gravity's essential role, while others challenge this notion, leading to an unresolved discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants express various assumptions about the nature of forces and conditions in the universe, and there are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of "soup" and the specific conditions under which particles or life might arise.

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Highly doubtful. Without gravity, the only long-acting force is the electromagnetic force. Since (as far as we can tell) the matter in the universe tends toward electrically neutral, there would be very little in the way of attraction going on. Stars could not form and the universe would be a cold, cold place.
 
Particles are possible, life is not. Without planets, life is hugely improbable. Life needs soup from which to evolve. No gravity, no soup.
 
I had understood that the electromagnetic force was explainable by spin-like photon exchange (QED) and I've see other proposals that imply gravity might be explained by another photon exchange.

If so, it would appear, that the electromagnetic and gravity forces might come as a 'set'.

So I guess I'm saying that its unlikely to be able to have particles without some equivalent of gravity as well. Maybe not 'scaled' as we observe in our universe, but still both.

So I guess, I'm saying that existence will always include 'a gravity'?
 
Gravity is a given, life is not.
 
so does everything has mass?
 
so does everything has mass?

Probably so from the perspective of mass energy equivalence...maybe a perfect vacuum without external wave influences would not, assuming ground state conditions...
 
Chronos said:
... No gravity, no soup.

I like soup :biggrin:
 
So I guess I'm saying that its unlikely to be able to have particles without some equivalent of gravity

not likely so... because the very early universe was a charged particle soup, a plasma early on...so as things cooled, electromagnetic attraction and,say the strong force, would pull ions together to form particles...but after that not much would happen...hydrogen and helium might form,just a few simple particles, but gravity is needed to pull such inert gases together and provide the potential energy to get nucler reactions (fission/fusion) started... a few basic particles drifting far apart would seem to be rather inhospitable to the beginnings of life...
 
  • #10
Naty1 said:
not likely so... because the very early universe was a charged particle soup, a plasma early on...so as things cooled, electromagnetic attraction and,say the strong force, would pull ions together to form particles...but after that not much would happen...hydrogen and helium might form,just a few simple particles, but gravity is needed to pull such inert gases together and provide the potential energy to get nucler reactions (fission/fusion) started... a few basic particles drifting far apart would seem to be rather inhospitable to the beginnings of life...

No gravitational attraction is not needed for Big Bang Nucleosynthesis. However, gravity is needed to stellar formation.
 
  • #11
malawi_glenn said:
No gravitational attraction is not needed for Big Bang Nucleosynthesis. However, gravity is needed to stellar formation.
Thank you -- a very interesting point.
 
  • #12
Chronos said:
Gravity is a given, life is not.
And God said -- Let there be General Relativity.

(sorry couldn't resist upon reading -- after the Douglas Adams quote.)
 
  • #13
Rymer said:
And God said -- Let there be General Relativity.

(sorry couldn't resist upon reading -- after the Douglas Adams quote.)

Amen :-)
 

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