Can We Create an Endless Loop of Energy with Water?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of creating a sustainable energy loop using water through electrolysis, hydrogen combustion, and the potential for renewable energy sources to power the process. Participants explore the implications of energy loss, efficiency, and alternative methods of hydrogen production.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that electrolysis of water can create a cycle of energy generation by using hydrogen for combustion, suggesting a perpetual energy source.
  • Another participant counters this idea, stating that it resembles a perpetual motion machine and is not feasible due to entropy and energy losses.
  • A participant suggests using renewable energy sources like hydroelectric power or solar panels to provide the necessary energy for electrolysis, implying a sustainable approach.
  • Concerns are raised about the efficiency of hydrogen as a fuel and the costs associated with the energy required for electrolysis, especially if derived from non-renewable sources.
  • Participants discuss alternative methods for producing hydrogen, including chemical methods and solar energy, but note that these also require energy input and may be less efficient than electrolysis.
  • There is a question about whether water can only be separated into hydrogen and oxygen through electricity, leading to clarification that chemical methods exist but are less efficient.
  • One participant highlights the importance of considering the efficiency of using hydrogen versus storing energy in batteries for powering vehicles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of a closed energy loop using water, with some supporting the idea under specific conditions while others argue against it due to fundamental physical principles. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the efficiency and practicality of the proposed methods.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the energy losses involved in the processes discussed, including heat loss during combustion and the efficiency of different energy sources for electrolysis. The conversation reflects a range of assumptions about energy inputs and outputs without reaching a consensus on the overall viability of the proposed energy cycle.

Jakecp
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I have got a question. If we do electrolysis with waterand get : H2 + 02 , and then we make hydrogen explode and make a piston move , for example. Then it would be H2O again? So we could do this forever and get as much energy as we want? That would be super awesome but i am not sure.
 
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No, this a perpetual motion idea, and it is not possible due to entropy.
Yes you will get H2O again, but there will be energy lost as heat.
The mechanical energy produced by the piston will be less than the electrical energy needed to do the electrolysis.
It will quickly run down unless you supply more energy from an external source.
 
I meant that we do electrolysis with hydroelectric energy , solar panels , something sustainable and then use hydrogen for combustion and there we go! it gets into h20 and we have electrolysis again and that process goes again and again and we would never , ever , ever be out of hydrogen and water right?
 
Sure, as long as you provide electrical power to the system from an external source.
 
Awesome! It is 101% sustainable or even more . There should be more hydrogen cars. Is there a better fuel than hydrogen that runs in a cycle like this?
 
As far as I know hydrogen is about as good as it gets in terms of energy released per volume of fuel.
... but ... supplying the extra electrical energy has a cost, especially if it generated from carbon fuels.
 
You mean , the energy for electrolysis? , there are other methods to do it like by solar energy getting concentrated into a spot by mirrors that heat the water and then we separe the gases by their properties.
 
No, using solar energy to vapourise water will just result in water vapour, not Hydrogen.
You need electricity to separate the Hydrogen from the Oxygen.
 
Water can only be separated by electricity?
 
  • #10
Well there are chemical methods of splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen as well as electrolysis.
However these also require the supply of energy in some form, and they are less efficient than simply using electricity.
 
  • #11
Thanks for helping me with my questions.
 
  • #12
You can either use the electricity to make hydrogen and use that to power cars or put the electricity in a battery and use that to power a car. Important to consider which is more efficient?
 

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