Can We Detect an Ongoing Enlarging of Everything in the Universe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the hypothetical scenario of everything in the universe enlarging simultaneously and whether such a phenomenon could be detected. Participants explore the implications of this idea from various perspectives, including philosophical, physical, and conceptual aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that if everything in the universe were to grow without changing dimensionless constants, it would be undetectable.
  • There is a question about whether inertial mass would change if two enlarging objects were in contact, with one participant arguing that they would push against each other, while another counters that the distance between them would also increase.
  • One participant raises concerns about the circular reasoning in the question, noting that if everything is part of the universe, then everything would grow in relation to itself, making the question more philosophical than physical.
  • Another participant states that if everything grows while maintaining the same functional relationships, it would be impossible to detect any change, rendering the question meaningless.
  • Conversely, some propose that there could be detectable ways for everything to grow, such as changes in the relative strength of organisms or the speed of light through larger objects, but these scenarios depend on specific conditions being met.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express disagreement on the feasibility and implications of the scenario, with no consensus on whether it is a meaningful question or how it could be approached scientifically.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the ambiguity of the term "bigger," the dependence on definitions of growth, and unresolved implications of simultaneous enlargement on physical laws and measurements.

jharvath
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If everything in the universe were getting bigger, would there be any way for us to detect that, or on the contrary, would there be no way to know, no experiment we could perform, which would allow us to confirm an ongoing enlarging of everything?

I have this idea that there is no way to know if this is happening...
 
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All we can detect are changes to the dimensionless constants. If everything got bigger without changing any of the dimensionless constants then we would not be able to detect it.
 
what about inertial mass - if two objects that were growing in size were touching each other, would it not be the case that they would push upon each other?
 
jharvath said:
what about inertial mass - if two objects that were growing in size were touching each other, would it not be the case that they would push upon each other?

No, because the distance between them would be increasing too.
 
jharvath said:
If everything in the universe were getting bigger, [...]

There are many problems with posing such a question.

  1. If you and your ruler/measuring rod are "getting bigger" simultaneously, how could you tell anything is getting bigger at all?
  2. "Getting bigger" in respect to what?
Such problems arise when a question contradicts itself/is a circular reasoning. If anything is getting bigger, it has to get bigger in comparison to something else. Since the Universe encompasses everything, this else has to be part of the Universe. So this else would also get bigger. From a physics perspective, the question makes no sense. It is more metaphysical, i.e. part of philosophy. Now, the Universe is expanding of course, and this can be measured.
 
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So, it seems as though, if it were the case that the everything in the universe were getting bigger there would be no way we detect that using current level of physical knowledge.
 
You cannot even define what "bigger" means. This is not a question of physical knowledge.
 
There are many ways to "get bigger".

If "everything gets bigger" means that everthing, while getting bigger, keeps working exactly the same way, every gear keeps turning, every tree keeps growing the same way, and so on, then no, of course you can't detect it, since everything is the same as before. You build a scenario where everything is the same and then ask if we can find something different ? :rolleyes: The question itself is meaningless. Notice that when you imagine everything getting bigger, you have to keep something constant, for example you "see" objects getting larger with respect to your field of vision.

On the other hand, there are many ways in which everything could get bigger in a detectable way, but I think they don't correspond to what you meant. For example, an ant can lift many times its weight, because the section of its muscles is big in respect to its mass; if everything got bigger, you could see ants (and yourself) getting weaker. But this assumes that lots of things, like atom sizes, don't grow. Or, light could take more time to go through an object if it's bigger - and this actually happens, though only on a very big scale.
 

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