Questions About the Growth of the Universe

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter J251H
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Growth Universe
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

This discussion revolves around questions regarding the growth of the universe, its energy density, and the implications of energy condensation into matter. Participants explore theoretical concepts related to cosmology, including the nature of expansion and the conditions of the universe at the time of the Big Bang.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the meaning of the universe 'growing' and asks what yardstick is used to measure this growth.
  • Another participant explains that an infinite universe can still expand, using a number line analogy to illustrate how distances between objects can increase over time.
  • There is a discussion about whether the energy density of the universe would differ now compared to the time of the Big Bang if all energy were released simultaneously, with some suggesting it would be lower due to increased volume.
  • One participant asserts that the scaling of energy density is a fundamental part of the standard model of cosmology (ΛCDM model), which aligns well with observations like the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB).
  • Another participant challenges the notion of the universe 'growing' and questions the interpretation of energy being 'released into free form', indicating a need for clarity on definitions.
  • There is uncertainty regarding the concept of energy condensation into matter and its relation to the perception of a growing universe, with one participant expressing confusion about this idea.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the concept of the universe growing and the implications of energy density changes. There is no consensus on the interpretation of energy condensation or the terminology used in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the definitions of terms like "released into free form" and "condensation of energy into matter" remain unresolved, leading to varying interpretations of the cosmological model.

J251H
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
I know nothing about physics, but it would be great to get an answer to my questions of anyone can help:

1) If everything that exists does so within the universe, does it make any sense to say that the universe 'grows'? Against which yardstick is any growth being measured?

2) Would the energy density of the universe be any different now than at the time of the big bang if all the energy were released into free form at the same time?

3) Is it possible that it is the condensation of energy into matter which creates the impression of a growing universe to those of us which live within it? (and that in fact the universe is no bigger than at the time of the big bang)
 
Space news on Phys.org
Let me just address your first question. Contrary to what many people think, it is possible for something which is infinite in extent to "expand". It simply means that the distances between objects is getting larger with time. Imagine your one-dimensional number line, which stretches to infinity in both directions. At time t=0, the distance between the point labeled "1", and the point labeled "2" is one unit. Similarly, the distance between the point "1" and the point "11" is 10 units. At some time later, t=T, the distance between "1" and "2" has grown to 1.1 units, and the distance between the point "1" and "11" has grown to 11 units. The number line is infinite in extent at t=0, and it is infinite in extent at t=T, but it has "expanded". It is in this sense that the universe is expanding. You ask "Against which yardstick is any growth being measured?". The answer is that there are other things, like the sizes of atoms or the wavelengths of light emitted by atoms, which are not expanding with time, and it is against these yardsticks that we measure the expansion.
 
Thanks for this answer.

I guess that means that if all the energy in the universe were to be simultaneously released into free form, there would now be lower energy density than at the time of the big bang (as it would be spread over a larger volume). Is there any way to confirm this though?
 
J251H said:
I guess that means that if all the energy in the universe were to be simultaneously released into free form, there would now be lower energy density than at the time of the big bang (as it would be spread over a larger volume).
Yes, that's correct.
Is there any way to confirm this though?
Well, this type of assumption is a fundamental part of the standard model of cosmology (the ΛCDM model), which does an extraordinarily good job of explaining our observations. So if this weren't true, many things wouldn't make sense. For example, the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB) is assumed to have been emitted at a time when the energy density of the universe was ~ 10^9 times higher than it is today, and was comparable to the energy density at the surface of the sun. Since the properties of the CMB are extremely well described by the ΛCDM model (see http://cosmology.berkeley.edu/Education/CosmologyEssays/The_Cosmic_Microwave_Background.html for example), we are quite confident that the fundamental assumptions, like the scaling of energy density, are correct.
 
J251H said:
If everything that exists does so within the universe, does it make any sense to say that the universe 'grows'?

The standard model of cosmology does not say that the universe "grows" (although pop science descriptions often make it seem that way). It says that, on large distance scales (roughly 100 million light years to a billion light years and larger), all of the matter in the universe is, on average, moving apart.

J251H said:
Would the energy density of the universe be any different now than at the time of the big bang if all the energy were released into free form at the same time?

What does "released into free form" mean?

If you just mean the average density of energy in the universe now as compared to right after the big bang, yes, it is many, many orders of magnitude smaller now.

J251H said:
Is it possible that it is the condensation of energy into matter which creates the impression of a growing universe to those of us which live within it? (and that in fact the universe is no bigger than at the time of the big bang)

I don't know what you mean by "condensation of energy into matter". But I think you are trying to work with a mistaken understanding of what our standard cosmological model actually says.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
1K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
3K
  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
8K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
2K
  • · Replies 65 ·
3
Replies
65
Views
9K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
3K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
4K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
5K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K