Can We Solve for the Wave Function of Water?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility and implications of solving for the wave function of water, focusing on the complexities of the water molecule as a multiparticle system and the methods used in quantum chemistry to approximate its wave function.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the utility and solvability of the wave function of water, suggesting it may not be solvable at all.
  • One participant notes that the water molecule consists of 13 particles, leading to challenges in fully determining the state vector of the molecule.
  • Another participant elaborates on the use of the Born-Oppenheimer approximation in quantum chemistry, indicating that it allows for the computation of the ground state electron wave function based on the positions of the nuclei.
  • This participant also mentions that through interpolation of potential energy surfaces, one can derive good approximations for bond lengths and angles in water molecules.
  • A later reply references a specific source that may provide further insights into the applications of solving the wave function of water.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the solvability and usefulness of the wave function of water, with some advocating for its approximation through established quantum chemistry methods while others remain skeptical about its complete determination.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations related to the complexity of the water molecule and the assumptions inherent in the Born-Oppenheimer approximation, as well as the potential for approximations to yield useful predictions.

rodsika
Messages
278
Reaction score
2
Whats the use of solving for the wave function of water? Or is it not solvable at all?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The water molecule is a multiparticle system (3 nuclei whose internal structure can be discarded and 10 electrons). 13 particles mean that a complete knowledge of the molecule's state vector is unknown.
 
dextercioby said:
The water molecule is a multiparticle system (3 nuclei whose internal structure can be discarded and 10 electrons). 13 particles mean that a complete knowledge of the molecule's state vector is unknown.

This is too simplified.

Water is typically treated in the Born-Oppenheimer approximation. Given the positions of the centers of the three nuclei, any decent quantum chemistry package computes the ground state electron wave function (in a post Hartree-Fock approximation) and the first (and sometimes second) derivatives with respect to these positions. By interpolation, one can get good approximations to the potential energy surface of the atoms. The latter is used to compute the nuclear ground state. Combined one gets a complete (though of course approximate) wave function for the ground state of a water molecule.

In this way, one can predict bond lengths and angles of a water molecule.
 
Last edited:
Lots of things, you can for instance use it http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0009-2614(02)00890-4" and find stuff out.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
4K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K