Can We Visualize Spatial Direction in Space?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the visualization of spatial direction in space, particularly in the context of the balloon model of the universe. Participants explore concepts related to dimensionality, the nature of space and time, and the limitations of human perception in understanding these ideas.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Adam expresses confusion about spatial direction in space and questions the limitations of the balloon model in representing what lies beyond the observable universe.
  • Some participants clarify that in the balloon model, there is no edge, and that we can only perceive dimensions within our own spatial framework.
  • It is suggested that while we can look into the past by observing distant light, we cannot see into the future due to the unidirectional nature of time.
  • One participant references Sean Carroll's writings on the direction of time as a way to further understand these concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the limitations of the balloon model and the nature of time, but there is no consensus on how to fully visualize or understand spatial direction beyond the observable universe.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the challenges of visualizing higher dimensions and the implications of time on our perception of space, but does not resolve the underlying complexities or assumptions involved.

USCadam89
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I have looked at this forum for over a year. One thing that has always confused me is spatial direction in space. Thinking in terms of the balloon model: what represents the part in front/beyond if we are on the edge looking out. If we are looking out why can't we "turn around" and see the other way. I understand that when the balloon first starts expanding this is t-0 and representive of the big bang. Space is 3 dimensional why can't we see in front of us, or is this where time/speed of light is involved. Is there no real spatial model that can depict this? In the balloon model I feel we should be able to see beyond the outer latex(if we are indeed a fixated galaxy representive of a coin) and not just distant light from our past. We do a 360 rotation in space and see all parts of our galaxy from any point on the earth, what's representive of top, bottom, edge, or is there no such thing? Is this all to do with the speed of light? Please tie up my loose ends and confusion. I have the classic biology mindset, some of this hard for me to visualize.

Thank you all for this forum,
Adam
 
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Hello Adam! Welcome to PF! :smile:
USCadam89 said:
… Thinking in terms of the balloon model: what represents the part in front/beyond if we are on the edge looking out. If we are looking out why can't we "turn around" and see the other way. … Space is 3 dimensional why can't we see in front of us, or is this where time/speed of light is involved.

in the balloon model (2D or 3D version), there is no edge

in 2D, we can't look "out", we can only look in 2D, ie along the surface of the balloon: we can't look in 3D

in 3D also, we can't look "out", we can only look in 3D: we can't look in 4D

the "3D balloon" is expanding in 4D
 
tiny-tim said:
Hello Adam! Welcome to PF! :smile:


in the balloon model (2D or 3D version), there is no edge

in 2D, we can't look "out", we can only look in 2D, ie along the surface of the balloon: we can't look in 3D

in 3D also, we can't look "out", we can only look in 3D: we can't look in 4D

the "3D balloon" is expanding in 4D
I think more accurately, the dimension being referred to is time. We can look into the past (similar to looking inward in the balloon analogy) simply by looking far away. But we cannot look at photons emitted from the future (the outward direction), because time has a definite direction.

As for why there's a direction of time, I think Sean Carroll has written a number of good articles on the subject, such as this blog post:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/12/03/arrow-of-time-faq/
 
thank you both.
this will help me better visualize other things within cosmology
without this foundation it's hard to understand further topics

Adam.

If anyone has any further input, it would be greatly appreciated.
 

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