Can you go for a PhD without a BSc?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the possibility of pursuing a PhD without having completed a Bachelor of Science (BSc) degree, particularly in the context of the current educational crisis in Greece. Participants explore various pathways and challenges related to graduate school admissions, including the necessity of formal qualifications versus self-study.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses concern about the indefinite closure of universities in Greece and inquires whether it is possible to pursue a PhD without a BSc.
  • Several participants assert that most graduate programs require a completed undergraduate degree, suggesting that self-study may not be viewed as equivalent to formal education.
  • Another participant raises the possibility of transferring to another university in Europe to complete the undergraduate degree, highlighting the potential for educational opportunities within the EU.
  • Some participants discuss the economic implications of transferring and the uncertainty regarding course recognition at other institutions.
  • There is a mention of the GRE as a potential avenue for demonstrating capability, though it is noted that it typically cannot substitute for a BSc.
  • One participant shares their experience of studying in Germany without paying tuition, suggesting that there may be affordable options available for EU students.
  • Another participant emphasizes that while some universities in the U.S. may not require a BSc, they still demand substantial evidence of capability, which may be difficult to provide without formal education.
  • There is a reiteration that completing the BSc is crucial for advancing to graduate studies, with some participants stressing the challenges of moving forward without it.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that most graduate programs require a BSc, but there are differing opinions on the feasibility of alternative pathways and the severity of the educational crisis in Greece. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best course of action for the original poster.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the uncertainty surrounding the recognition of courses when transferring universities and the varying requirements of different graduate programs across countries.

kostas230
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I'm an undergraduate studying in Greece, and all universities are closing indeterminately. Rumors is, that they will be privatized and if that happens I won't be able to remain at the university.

I want to do a PhD in theoretical or mathematical physics. I have excellent grades in classical mechanics, electromagnetism, quantum mechanics, thermodynamics ans statistical physics while I'm average on all the other courses. I study on my own topology, analysis, linear algebra (from Roman's book) and group theory (from Rotman's book). I also have excellent recommendations letters from professors of the physics department and from the math department.

It would be a shame if I couldn't go to grad school. So I'm asking: is it possible to go to grad school without a degree from a university? Thanks in advance :)
 
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This will be very difficult. Most places require a BS, and "study on my own" tends not to have the same outcomes as "took a class", so most places are happy to require a BS.
 
I find it absolutely astounding that the public finances in Greece are in such state of crisis that ALL universities are closed indefinitely. That will consign an entire generation of people Greece to the type of deprivation more akin to sub-Saharan African nations than a member of the European Union.

Back to your original point, as an EU citizen, do you not have any option to transfer to another university elsewhere in Europe to complete your degree? That may be the only option for you to complete your undergraduate degree and pursue graduate studies.
 
This will be very difficult. Most places require a BS, and "study on my own" tends not to have the same outcomes as "took a class", so most places are happy to require a BS.

What if I took GRE's?

"Back to your original point, as an EU citizen, do you not have any option to transfer to another university elsewhere in Europe to complete your degree? That may be the only option for you to complete your undergraduate degree and pursue graduate studies."

Yes, but the economic issue still stands... And, also I don't know what courses will be recognized by the university I get transferred.
 
I gave you my opinion. You want to argue with me, go right ahead. I'm not going to waste my time doing that.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
I gave you my opinion. You want to argue with me, go right ahead. I'm not going to waste my time doing that.

I'm not trying to argue! I'm just asking! I have to explore every option since my life is at stake here.
 
I also live in Greece and although not studying, I don't think that the situation is quite so dire as you make out. But anyway, StatGuy makes a very good point. The situation in EU is one where the governments are forcing greater social and economic integration, even if people in the member states don't always like it. Perhaps if you feel unfairly treated, because of issues related to the troika, you should take advantage of the educational opportunities that greater European integration offers. Many EU countries have good rates for tuition fees - I did my BSc in Germany and unashamedly didn't pay a cent for tuition. Of course you'll have to learn a language, but that won't be so difficult for an A student ;-)
Actually, there may be long-term benefit. You could choose to stay on there and do your MSc and PhD as well!
 
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sunrah said:
I also live in Greece and although not studying, I don't think that the situation is quite so dire as you make out. But anyway, StatGuy makes a very good point. The situation in EU is one where the governments are forcing greater social and economic integration, even if people in the member states don't always like it. Perhaps if you feel unfairly treated, because of issues related to the troika, you should take advantage of the educational opportunities that greater European integration offers. Many EU countries have good rates for tuition fees - I did my BSc in Germany and unashamedly didn't pay a cent for tuition. Of course you'll have to learn a language, but that won't be so difficult for an A student ;-)
Actually, there may be long-term benefit. You could choose to stay on there and do your MSc and PhD as well!

Due to cuts, my university cannot function properly (we haven't even been registered to the university and that includes freshmen). The university of Athens and the Polytechnio has been closed for a semester. I heard something similar for Crete... It is dire.

Thanks for the info though :)
 
Unfortunately yes, most (all?) graduate schools will require that you've completed an undergraduate degree. The GRE is not a substitute for this - even if you ace it.

The first thing I would look into is transferring to a different school. Start perhaps with the places that you're interested in for graduate studies. Most universities will transfer credit for courses you've already completed. Then it's just a case of finishing up the year or so that you have left. Some schools in the EU may even put some kind of program in place to help out students in your situation. Doing one year abroad is much more financially appealing than repeating an entire degree.
 
  • #10
Most, but NOT all, universities in the United States require a bachelor's degree before admission to a graduate program. Those that do NOT require such are typically small, private, relatively expensive colleges. I know this used to be the case, for example, for Reed College in Portland, Oregon- though I cannot guarantee that is still true. Of course, those will still require hefty evidence of ability- probably more than just GRE test- unless they were amazing. And if you were unable to attend a four year college where would you get the knowledge to do so well and how would you know that you had it?
 
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  • #11
Reed does not have a MS in physics, and the one MA program they do have requires a bachelors degree.

Seriously, however hard it is to complete your bachelors, it will be that much harder to advance without completing it.
 
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