Checking if $\beta \in \text{Isom}(\mathbb{R}^2)$

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the characterization of isometries in the context of $\mathbb{R}^2$. Participants explore various mappings defined in relation to isometries, questioning their properties and whether they can be classified as such. The focus includes theoretical aspects of isometries, their definitions, and the implications of these mappings in a mathematical framework.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants define mappings $\delta_{p,\alpha}$, $\sigma_{p,\alpha}$, and $\gamma_{q,p,\alpha}$ and propose that one of these must represent an isometry $\beta$.
  • There is a question about the meaning of $\mathbb{R}f_\alpha$ and $\mathbb{R}e_\alpha$, with some participants providing definitions related to vectors.
  • Participants discuss the necessity of checking whether the mappings preserve distances to confirm they are isometries.
  • Some participants suggest that all proposed mappings could be isometries, while others question how exactly one of the statements can be true if all mappings are isometries.
  • There is a discussion about the mutual exclusivity of the mappings, with participants noting that an isometry cannot simultaneously be a reflection and a rotation.
  • Participants express the need to prove that the given mappings correspond to all possible isometries and that they are mutually exclusive.
  • Some participants propose that the list of mappings corresponds to known classifications of isometries, such as identity, translation, rotation, reflection, and glide reflection.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the mappings are isometries but debate the implications of this and whether only one can be true at a time. The discussion remains unresolved regarding how to prove the exclusivity of the mappings and whether any isometries have been overlooked.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions and properties of the mappings, as well as the conditions under which they can be classified as isometries. There are unresolved questions about the mutual exclusivity of the mappings and how to demonstrate that no isometries have been missed.

mathmari
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Hey! :giggle:

Let $\alpha\in \mathbb{R}$. We define the following maps:

(a) For $p\in \mathbb{R}^2$ let $\delta_{p,\alpha}=\tau_p\circ \delta_{\alpha}\circ\tau_p^{-1}$.
(b) For $p\in \mathbb{R}f_{\alpha}$ let $\sigma_{p,\alpha}=\tau_p\circ \sigma_{\alpha}\circ\tau_p^{-1}$.
(c) For $p\in \mathbb{R}f_{\alpha}$, $q\in \mathbb{R}e_{\alpha}$ let $\gamma_{q,p,\alpha}=\tau_q\circ \sigma_{p,\alpha}$.
Let $\beta\in \text{Isom}(\mathbb{R}^2)$. Then one of the following statements is true.

(i) $\beta=\text{id}$

(ii) $\beta=r_v$, $0\neq v\in \mathbb{R}^2$.

(iii) $\beta=\delta_{p,\alpha}$,$0<\alpha<2\pi$

(iv) $\beta=\sigma_{p,\alpha}$, $\alpha\in \mathbb{R}$, $p\in \mathbb{R}f_{\alpha}$

(v) $\beta=\gamma_{q,p,\alpha}$, $\alpha\in \mathbb{R}$, $p\in \mathbb{R}f_{\alpha}$ , $q\in \mathbb{R}e_{\alpha}$ , $0\neq q$
So we have to check which of these cases for $\beta$ we have an isometry, or not?

The identity function is in $\text{Isom}(\mathbb{R}^2)$, isn't it?

For the other ones do we have to checkif these maps are bijective? :unsure:
 
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Hey mathmari!

What are $\mathbb Rf_\alpha$, $\mathbb Re_\alpha$, and $r_v$? 🤔

We would need to check if the $\beta$ are isometries. That is whether distances are preserved. 🤔

Btw, it looks as if all statements are true. o_O
If $r_v$ is a typo and is actually $\tau_v$, then we have the list of all isometries in $\mathbb R^2$.
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
What are $\mathbb Rf_\alpha$, $\mathbb Re_\alpha$, and $r_v$? 🤔

We would need to check if the $\beta$ are isometries. That is whether distances are preserved. 🤔

Btw, it looks as if all statements are true. o_O
If $r_v$ is a typo and is actually $\tau_v$, then we have the list of all isometries in $\mathbb R^2$.

$\mathbb Re_\alpha$ is a multiple of the vector $ \begin{pmatrix}\cos \left (\frac{\alpha}{2}\right ) \\ \sin \left (\frac{\alpha}{2}\right )\end{pmatrix}$ and $\mathbb Rf_\alpha$ is a a multiplie of the vector $ \begin{pmatrix}-\sin \left (\frac{\alpha}{2}\right ) \\ \cos \left (\frac{\alpha}{2}\right )\end{pmatrix}$.

Yes it should be $\tau_v$, the translation, $\tau_v(x)=x+v$.

How do we see that all of the list are isometries in $\mathbb R^2$ ? How do we check of the distances are preserved? Do we calculate $\beta (x-y)$ ?

:unsure:
 
mathmari said:
How do we see that all of the list are isometries in $\mathbb R^2$ ?

Check out this section on wiki. 🤔

mathmari said:
How do we check of the distances are preserved? Do we calculate $\beta (x-y)$ ?
The definition of an isometry says that it's a map with $d(\beta (x),\beta (y))=d(x,y)$. 🤔
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
The definition of an isometry says that it's a map with $d(\beta (x),\beta (y))=d(x,y)$. 🤔

(i) For the identity we have that $\beta (x)=x$ and $\beta (y)=y$, so $d(\beta (x),\beta (y))=d(x,y)$ is satisfied.

(ii) If $\beta=\tau_v$ then $\beta(x)=\tau_v(x)=x+v$, and $\beta(y)=\tau_v(y)=y+v$. Then $d(\beta (x),\beta (y))=d(x+v,y+v)$ this is equal to $d(x,y)$, right?

(iii) $\beta (x)= \tau_p\circ \delta_{\alpha}\circ\tau_p^{-1} (x)= \tau_p( \delta_{\alpha}(x-p))=\tau_p( d_{\alpha}(x-p))=d_{\alpha}(x-p)+p$, right?

(iv) $\beta (x)= \tau_p\circ \sigma_{\alpha}\circ\tau_p^{-1} (x)= \tau_p( \sigma_{\alpha}(x-p))=\tau_p( s_{\alpha}(x-p))=s_{\alpha}(x-p)+p$, right?

(v) $\beta (x)= \tau_q\circ \sigma_{p,\alpha} (x)=\tau_q\circ \tau_p\circ \sigma_{\alpha}\circ\tau_p^{-1} (x)=s_{\alpha}(x-p)+p+q$, right? :unsure:
 
mathmari said:
(i) For the identity we have that $\beta (x)=x$ and $\beta (y)=y$, so $d(\beta (x),\beta (y))=d(x,y)$ is satisfied.

(ii) If $\beta=\tau_v$ then $\beta(x)=\tau_v(x)=x+v$, and $\beta(y)=\tau_v(y)=y+v$. Then $d(\beta (x),\beta (y))=d(x+v,y+v)$ this is equal to $d(x,y)$, right?

The standard Euclidean metric is $d(x,y)=\|x-y\|$.
So $d(\beta (x),\beta (y))=d(x+v,y+v)=\|(x+v)-(y+v)\|=\|x-y\|=d(x,y)$. So yes. (Nod)

mathmari said:
(iii) $\beta (x)= \tau_p\circ \delta_{\alpha}\circ\tau_p^{-1} (x)= \tau_p( \delta_{\alpha}(x-p))=\tau_p( d_{\alpha}(x-p))=d_{\alpha}(x-p)+p$, right?

(iv) $\beta (x)= \tau_p\circ \sigma_{\alpha}\circ\tau_p^{-1} (x)= \tau_p( \sigma_{\alpha}(x-p))=\tau_p( s_{\alpha}(x-p))=s_{\alpha}(x-p)+p$, right?

(v) $\beta (x)= \tau_q\circ \sigma_{p,\alpha} (x)=\tau_q\circ \tau_p\circ \sigma_{\alpha}\circ\tau_p^{-1} (x)=s_{\alpha}(x-p)+p+q$, right?
Yep.

So if we have that $\|d_\alpha y\|=\|y\|$ and $\|s_\alpha y\|=\|y\|$, then each of these will follow. 🤔
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
The standard Euclidean metric is $d(x,y)=\|x-y\|$.
So $d(\beta (x),\beta (y))=d(x+v,y+v)=\|(x+v)-(y+v)\|=\|x-y\|=d(x,y)$. So yes. (Nod)Yep.

So if we have that $\|d_\alpha y\|=\|y\|$ and $\|s_\alpha y\|=\|y\|$, then each of these will follow. 🤔
I got it now! 🤩 One question... At the question statement is it meant that $\beta$ can be ONLY one of the given maps or that these maps have the property of $\beta$, i.e . that they are isometries? :unsure:
 
mathmari said:
One question... At the question statement is it meant that $\beta$ can be ONLY one of the given maps or that these maps have the property of $\beta$, i.e . that they are isometries?
Makes sense yes.
I think we're supposed to prove that if $\beta$ is an isometry, that exactly 1 of the statements is true. 🤔
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
Makes sense yes.
I think we're supposed to prove that if $\beta$ is an isometry, that exactly 1 of the statements is true. 🤔

But how can exactly one be true if all maps are isometries? I got stuck right now. :unsure:
 
  • #10
mathmari said:
But how can exactly one be true if all maps are isometries? I got stuck right now.
An isometry cannot be both a reflection and a rotation can it? :rolleyes:
 
  • #11
Klaas van Aarsen said:
An isometry cannot be both a reflection and a rotation can it? :rolleyes:

I got stuck right now, you mean that not all maps can be an isometry although the distances are preserved? :unsure:
 
  • #12
mathmari said:
I got stuck right now, you mean that not all maps can be an isometry although the distances are preserved?
All those maps are isometries.
We need to prove that any given isometry must be one of them.
That is that we didn't 'miss' any isometries. And moreover that if an isometry matches one of them, that it won't simultaneously match another one as well. 🤔
 
  • #13
Klaas van Aarsen said:
All those maps are isometries.
We need to prove that any given isometry must be one of them.
That is that we didn't 'miss' any isometries. And moreover that if an isometry matches one of them, that it won't simultaneously match another one as well. 🤔

Ah ok!

To show that we didn't 'miss' any isometries, do we suppose that we miss some and we get a contradiction, or how do we show that? :unsure:
 
  • #14
mathmari said:
To show that we didn't 'miss' any isometries, do we suppose that we miss some and we get a contradiction, or how do we show that?
I think we can state the list from wiki as the list of the possible euclidean isometries.
Then we should probably just prove that the given statements correspond to them and that they are mutually exclusive. 🤔
 
  • #15
Klaas van Aarsen said:
I think we can state the list from wiki as the list of the possible euclidean isometries.
Then we should probably just prove that the given statements correspond to them and that they are mutually exclusive. 🤔

Ok!

(i) is the identity
(ii) is the translation nas for $v$
(iii) is the rotation around the point $p$ and with angle $a$
(iv) is the reflection about aline through the point $p$ and with angle $a$
(v) is a glide reflection Is that correct? :unsure:
 
  • #16
mathmari said:
(i) is the identity
(ii) is the translation nas for $v$
(iii) is the rotation around the point $p$ and with angle $a$
(iv) is the reflection about a line through the point $p$ and with angle $a$
(v) is a glide reflection
Is that correct?
Yep. That is, it is in one direction. (Nod)
I think we still need to verify that every rotation can be written with a $p$ in $\mathbb Rf_\alpha$.
And similarly for reflections and glide reflections. 🤔

And also that a $\gamma$ as we defined it, is really a glide reflection and not a regular reflection. 🤔
 

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