CHSH and the triangle inequality

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the CHSH inequality proof as presented on Wikipedia. Participants are examining the mathematical steps involved, particularly the application of the triangle inequality and the implications of certain assumptions regarding the values of functions involved in the proof.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Gespex presents a mathematical expression related to the CHSH inequality and seeks clarification on the transition to the next equation involving the triangle inequality.
  • Some participants explain the use of absolute values and inequalities in the context of the CHSH proof, including the application of the triangle inequality and properties of integrals.
  • A later reply questions the assertion that the product of certain functions is always equal to 1, suggesting that it could also be 0, and raises concerns about the interpretation of average values.
  • Another participant acknowledges the correction regarding the values of the functions, noting that they should be bounded by 1 rather than equal to 1.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the interpretation of the values of the functions involved in the CHSH proof, with some participants asserting that they can only take values between -1 and 1, while others initially claimed they are always equal to 1. The discussion remains unresolved regarding these interpretations.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the assumptions underlying the values of the functions and their implications for the proof. There is a lack of clarity on how these assumptions affect the overall argument.

gespex
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Hello everybody,

I've been trying to understand the CHSH proof as it is listed on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHSH_inequality

I got to this without any problem:
E(a, b) - E(a, b^\prime) = \int \underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)[1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda - \int \underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)[1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda

However, now it mentions two things to get to the next step:
- The fact that [1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda) and [1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda) are non-negative (easy enough to see).
- The triangle inequality "to both sides" (how?)

And the next equation is:
|E(a, b) - E(a, b^\prime)| \leq \int [1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda + \int [1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda

I don't understand how it gets to this last equation from the one before. Could somebody please explain?Thanks in advance,
Gespex
 
Last edited:
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gespex said:
Hello everybody,

I've been trying to understand the CHSH proof as it is listed on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHSH_inequality

I got to this without any problem:
E(a, b) - E(a, b^\prime) = \int \underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)[1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda - \int \underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)[1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda

However, now it mentions two things to get to the next step:
- The fact that [1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda) and [1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda) are non-negative (easy enough to see).
- The triangle inequality "to both sides" (how?)

And the next equation is:
|E(a, b) - E(a, b^\prime)| \leq \int [1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda + \int [1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda

I don't understand how it gets to this last equation from the one before. Could somebody please explain?


Thanks in advance,
Gespex

So you have:
E(a, b) - E(a, b^\prime) = \int \underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)[1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda - \int \underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)[1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda

Taking absolute value of both sides
|E(a, b) - E(a, b^\prime)| = |\int \underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)[1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda - \int \underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)[1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda|

Using |A \pm B| \le |A| + |B|:

|E(a, b) - E(a, b^\prime)| \le |\int \underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)[1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda| + |\int \underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)[1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda|

Then using | \int f(x) dx | \le \int |f(x)| dx, (which, if you think of it, is just a variation of the above):

|E(a, b) - E(a, b^\prime)| \le \int |\underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)[1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda) | d\lambda + \int |\underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)[1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)|d\lambda

And since |\underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)|=1, and both 1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda) \ge 0 and \rho(\lambda) \ge 0, we get:

|E(a, b) - E(a, b^\prime)| \leq \int [1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda + \int [1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda
 
Delta Kilo said:
So you have:
E(a, b) - E(a, b^\prime) = \int \underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)[1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda - \int \underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)[1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda

Taking absolute value of both sides
|E(a, b) - E(a, b^\prime)| = |\int \underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)[1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda - \int \underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)[1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda|

Using |A \pm B| \le |A| + |B|:

|E(a, b) - E(a, b^\prime)| \le |\int \underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)[1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda| + |\int \underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)[1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda|

Then using | \int f(x) dx | \le \int |f(x)| dx, (which, if you think of it, is just a variation of the above):

|E(a, b) - E(a, b^\prime)| \le \int |\underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)[1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda) | d\lambda + \int |\underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)[1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)|d\lambda

And since |\underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)|=1, and both 1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda) \ge 0 and \rho(\lambda) \ge 0, we get:

|E(a, b) - E(a, b^\prime)| \leq \int [1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b^\prime, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda + \int [1 \pm \underline {A}(a^\prime, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)]\rho(\lambda)d\lambda

Thanks a lot! The proof's easy enough to follow like that. But this statement seems to me to contradict Wikipedia (though it's probably just my ignorance):
|\underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)|=1

As Wikipedia says "Since the possible values of A and B are −1, 0 and +1". So couldn't it also be that |\underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)|=0?

It also says "where \underline {A} and \underline {B} are the average values of the outcomes", so not just -1, 0 or 1, but any value from -1 to 1, which would mean only that: 0 \le |\underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)|\le 1

Or am I missing something here?
 
gespex said:
Or am I missing something here?
Oh, I'm sorry, you are right of course, it should have been |\underline {A}(a, \lambda)\underline {B}(b, \lambda)| \le 1. It does not change anything though.
 
Delta Kilo said:
It does not change anything though.

Oops, yeah, good point. Thanks!
 

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