Clarification: proof that perfect subsets of R^k uncountable

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the proof that a non-empty, perfect subset of R^k is uncountable. Participants explore the implications of the proof, the definitions of perfect sets, and the nature of limit points within the context of this theorem.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the claim of contradiction in the proof, specifically how the condition that xn is not in Kn+1 leads to the intersection being empty.
  • Another participant challenges the assertion that a set with limit points must be infinite, providing a counterexample with a singleton set.
  • There is a discussion about the definition of a perfect set, with some participants asserting it is closed and contains no isolated points, while others mention the requirement of every point being a limit point.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the definition of limit points, emphasizing that a point is a limit point if every neighborhood intersects the set at points other than itself.
  • One participant elaborates on the implications of the construction of K as the intersection of Kn, arguing that the conditions imply K must be empty, which is consistent with the proof's conclusion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and implications of perfect sets and limit points. There is no consensus on the initial claims regarding the proof, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the nature of limit points and the validity of the proof's steps.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express confusion over the proof's use of induction and the definitions involved, indicating potential limitations in understanding the foundational concepts of topology relevant to the discussion.

cpsinkule
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From Baby Rudin
"Thm: Let P be a non-empty, perfect subset of R^k. Then P is uncountable.

Pf: Since P has limit points, P must be infinite. Suppose P is countable, list the point of P {x1 ...xn }. Construct a sequence of nbhds. as follows. Let V1 be any nbhd of x1 . Suppose Vn has been constructed so that Vn ∩ P is non-empty. Since every point of P is a limit point of P, there is a nbhd Vn+1 such that it's closure is in Vn , xn is NOT in the closure of Vn+1, and Vn+1 ∩ P is non-empty. Let Kn=closure(Vn)∩P, then Kn is closed, bndd., therefore compact. The Kn are clearly nested compact sets, thus their arbitrary intersection is non-empty. But xn∉Kn+1 implies that ∩nKn is empty, thus a contradiction. "

My confusion is in the claim of the contradiction. How does xn∉Kn+1 imply the intersection is empty? My thoughts are that, since we assumed P to be countable, xn must be an element of any inductive subset of P indexed by n+1. Is my logic behind this statement true? It just seemed a little artificial to me as I have not seen a proof which uses induction to arrive at a contradiction in this manner before.
 
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cpsinkule said:
Since P has limit points, P must be infinite.
What do you mean by this? ##X = \{x\}## has limit points, ##\{x\}##.
What does it mean for P to be perfect? Beside there is a point in P and P has nice topological separation properties that is all you have.
 
fresh_42 said:
What do you mean by this? ##X = \{x\}## has limit points, ##\{x\}##.
This is not true.
fresh_42 said:
What does it mean for P to be perfect?
A set is perfect when it is closed and each of its point is a limit point.
 
Krylov said:
This is not true.

A set is perfect when it is closed and each of its point is a limit point.
I've read closed and no isolated points.
Why is a constant sequence not allowed? Likely I've mistranslated limit point by limit. It's kind of a standard pit.
 
fresh_42 said:
Why is a constant sequence not allowed?
Because ##x## is a limit point of a set ##A## in a metric space if, by definition, every neighborhood of ##x## meets ##A## in a point other than ##x##.

All limit points of ##A## are in ##\overline{A}##, but not all points in ##\overline{A}## are necessarily limit points of ##A##.
 
Last edited:
If you denote ##K=\cap_{n\ge 1} K_n##, then the condition ##x_1\notin K_2## implies that ##x_1\notin K##. Similarly, condition ##x_2\notin K_3## implies that ##x_2\notin K##, and, more generally, for every ##n\ge 1## the condition ##x_n\notin K_{n+1}## implies that ##x_n\notin K##. But this means that ##P\cap K=\varnothing## (because ##P=\cup_{n\ge 1} \{x_n\}##). On the other hand, by construction ##K\subset P## (because ##K_n\subset P## for all ##n\ge 1##).

So ##K=\varnothing##.
 
Hawkeye18 said:
If you denote ##K=\cap_{n\ge 1} K_n##, then the condition ##x_1\notin K_2## implies that ##x_1\notin K##. Similarly, condition ##x_2\notin K_3## implies that ##x_2\notin K##, and, more generally, for every ##n\ge 1## the condition ##x_n\notin K_{n+1}## implies that ##x_n\notin K##. But this means that ##P\cap K=\varnothing## (because ##P=\cup_{n\ge 1} \{x_n\}##). On the other hand, by construction ##K\subset P## (because ##K_n\subset P## for all ##n\ge 1##).

So ##K=\varnothing##.
Thanks, that's much clearer now! :)
 

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