Closed subspace of a Lindelöf space is Lindelöf

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the proposition that a closed subspace of a Lindelöf space is Lindelöf, as presented in Rao's Topology. Participants examine the proof provided by Rao and question the necessity of the closed condition for the proposition to hold, exploring implications and counterexamples.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant summarizes Rao's proof, noting that it relies on the closed nature of the subspace to ensure that the union of the open cover and the complement is also open.
  • Another participant points out that the open sets used in the proof only cover the subspace and may not cover the entire space, questioning the validity of extending the argument to arbitrary subspaces.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of the proof, with one participant realizing that the extraction of a subcover does not necessarily yield a valid cover for the original open cover of the subspace.
  • Some participants propose the idea of finding a Lindelöf space that contains a non-Lindelöf subspace, suggesting that such examples may exist outside of metric spaces.
  • One participant suggests the one-point compactification of an uncountable discrete space as a potential counterexample to the proposition.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that Rao's proof is valid for closed subspaces but express uncertainty about whether the proposition holds for arbitrary subspaces. There is no consensus on the existence of a counterexample, though some participants suggest possible candidates.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the proof's reliance on the closed nature of the subspace is crucial, and there is ambiguity regarding the coverage of the entire space by the open sets used in the proof. The discussion also highlights the limitations of extending the proposition to non-closed subspaces.

Rasalhague
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I'm looking at Rao: Topology, Proposition 1.5.4, "A closed subspace of a Lindelöf space is Lindelöf." He gives a proof, which seems clear enough, using the idea that for each open cover of the subspace, there is an open cover of the superspace. But I can't yet see where he uses the fact that the subspace is closed. That's to say, I can't see why the proposition isn't true of an arbitrary subspace.

Here is Rao's proof in full. In his notation, given a topological space (X,\cal{T}) with a subset A \subseteq X, then \cal{T}_A is the subspace topology for A.

Let A be a closed subspace of a Lindelöf space (X,\cal{T}). Let C=\left \{ G_\lambda : \lambda \in \Lambda \right \} be a \cal{T}_A-open cover of A. Then G_\lambda = H_\lambda \cap A for some H_\lambda \in \cal{T}.

Now \left \{ H_\lambda : \lambda \in \Lambda \right \} is a \cal{T}-open cover of A. Hence \left \{ H_\lambda : \lambda \in \Lambda \right \} \cup (X\setminus A) is a \cal{T}-open cover for X.

Since X is Lindelöf, we can extract from this cover a countable subcover of X, say \left \{ H_{\lambda_1},H_{\lambda_2},... \right \}. Accordingly, \left \{ G_{\lambda_1},G_{\lambda_2},... \right \} is an open subcover of A. Hence (A,\cal{T}_A) is Lindelöf.
 
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This sentence:

Hence \left \{ H_\lambda : \lambda \in \Lambda \right \} \cup (X\setminus A) is a \cal{T}-open cover for X.

says not only that it is a cover, but that the H_\lambda and X\setminus A are open. The latter is of course only true if A is closed.
 
Okay, I see. In that case, yes, he has only shown that the statement is true when A is closed. But \left \{ H_\lambda : \lambda \in \Lambda \right \}\cup X is also an open cover for X, whether or not A is closed.
 
Rasalhague said:
Okay, I see. In that case, yes, he has only shown that the statement is true when A is closed. But \left \{ H_\lambda : \lambda \in \Lambda \right \}\cup X is also an open cover for X, whether or not A is closed.

No, the H_\lambda only form a cover of A. It is not known that they also cover X. They might cover X, but nothing has been said about that.

For example, take X=\mathbb{R} and A=[0,1].
Let G1=[0,3/4[ and G2=]1/4,1]. Then we might take H1=]-1,3/4[ and H2=]1/4,2[. But these do not cover X.
 
Ah, I get it! Thanks, micromass.

I realized that \left \{ H_\lambda : \lambda \in \Lambda \right \} is not necessarily an open cover of X, but I reasoned that since X is open, \left \{ H_\lambda : \lambda \in \Lambda \right \}\cup X is an open cover of X, so we can extract an open subcover \left \{ H_{\lambda_1},H_{\lambda_2},...,X \right \}. What I was forgetting is that the corresponding open cover of A, namely \left \{ H_{\lambda_1},H_{\lambda_2},...,Y \right \} is not necessarily a subcover for C=\left \{ G_\lambda : \lambda \in \Lambda \right \} since it's not necessarily the case that Y\in C.
 
Rasalhague said:
Ah, I get it! Thanks, micromass.

I realized that \left \{ H_\lambda : \lambda \in \Lambda \right \} is not necessarily an open cover of X, but I reasoned that since X is open, \left \{ H_\lambda : \lambda \in \Lambda \right \}\cup X is an open cover of X, so we can extract an open subcover \left \{ H_{\lambda_1},H_{\lambda_2},...,X \right \}.

How does that help?? I can extract {X} as subcover. That doesn't really get me anywhere.
 
Yeah, and it doesn't help (show that the statement is true of an arbitrary subspace) because the \cal{T}_Y-open set which in the subspace topology corresponds to X is Y=X\cap Y, and - of course - there's no guarantee that Y will belong to an arbitrary \cal{T}_Y-open cover of Y.
 
Now, I wonder if we can find an example of a Lindelöf space with a non-Lindelöf subspace, what I guess would be called a "weakly" (or nonhereditarily) Lindelöf space.
 
Rasalhague said:
Now, I wonder if we can find an example of a Lindelöf space with a non-Lindelöf subspace...

Well, it won't be a metric space. All subspaces of a Lindelof metric space are Lindelof, for the simple reason that Lindelof is equivalent to second countable in metric spaces.

But as a counterexample, perhaps take the one-point compactification of an uncountable, discrete space.
 

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