CMB and the reference point for vacuum energy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between vacuum energy, the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB), and their implications for concepts such as the Casimir effect and the spatial flatness of the universe. Participants explore theoretical aspects and implications of these concepts without reaching definitive conclusions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the definition of vacuum energy, tied to the Uncertainty principle, should include the CMB.
  • Another participant suggests that the CMB can be blocked by materials that obstruct microwave radiation, implying it may not significantly affect the Casimir effect.
  • There is a discussion about whether models of the universe's flatness take the CMB into account, with one participant asserting that while the CMB is included in energy density considerations, it did not exist during inflation.
  • A participant raises a hypothetical scenario about the curvature of space if only vacuum energy were present, questioning if it would differ from the curvature caused by other forms of mass-energy.
  • Another participant expresses uncertainty regarding the details of space's shape under the proposed conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of the CMB in vacuum energy discussions and its implications for the Casimir effect and the curvature of space. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made regarding the interaction between vacuum energy and the CMB, as well as the implications for curvature in the absence of other mass-energy forms. The discussion does not resolve these complexities.

nomadreid
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From the basic definition of vacuum energy as being tied in with the Uncertainty principle, I would expect this not to include the Cosmic Background Radiation. Right? On the other hand, in figuring out
(a) the Casimir effect, one attributes the force to the field between the plates carrying less energy than the vacuum... but the CMB is always there as well, so one would imagine that this would contribute to the pressure on the plates
(b) why the observable universe is nearly spatially flat and how inflation smooths it down, it is not clear whether this takes the CMB into consideration or not.
Thanks for any attempts to clear up my confusion.
 
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nomadreid said:
(a) the Casimir effect, one attributes the force to the field between the plates carrying less energy than the vacuum... but the CMB is always there as well, so one would imagine that this would contribute to the pressure on the plates

The CMB can easily be blocked by anything that blocks microwave radiation, so this isn't a problem.

nomadreid said:
(b) why the observable universe is nearly spatially flat and how inflation smooths it down, it is not clear whether this takes the CMB into consideration or not.

Yes, the models take the CMB into account. Well, not for inflation, since the CMB didn't exist at the time of inflation, but the flatness of the universe has to include the energy density of the CMB and everything else. As far as I know at least.
 
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Thanks very much, Drakkith. So, when one refers to the negative energy between the plates, that is in reference only to the vacuum energy. This brings me to ask whether, then, since space is very nearly flat with the CMB and gravity and dark energy and so forth included, then if only the vacuum energy but not the CMB , matter, dark energy, etc. were present (if this condition makes sense), space would then be slightly curved (in the opposite way to its curvature in the presence of other mass-energy)?
 
nomadreid said:
This brings me to ask whether, then, since space is very nearly flat with the CMB and gravity and dark energy and so forth included, then if only the vacuum energy but not the CMB , matter, dark energy, etc. were present (if this condition makes sense), space would then be slightly curved (in the opposite way to its curvature in the presence of other mass-energy)?

I confess I don't know. The details of the shape of space are a bit beyond me.
 

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