Coffee/caffeine and genius within

In summary: So I am wondering if there's a correlation between caffeine consumption and intelligence or memory.In summary, I read that caffeine has a positive effect on memory, but it's not clear if this is from a long-term of regular consumption.
  • #1
NeOH
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I would like to know how many geniuses didnt drink caffeine in a daily basis if any when they did their major work?
Or current geniuses?

Ive heard rumours that Tesla didnt drink coffee after realizing it affected his imagination, but I don't know if he continued drinking it later on.

I read:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17400186

which states: "long-term consumption of caffeine could inhibit hippocampus-dependent learning and memory partially through inhibition of hippocampal neurogenesis."

Ive stopped drinking coffee after regular consumption for 2 weeks now, and I feel quite tired still and unmotivated with troubles to focus.

thoughts?

drink-coffee-do-stupid-things-with-more-energy-funny-poster.jpg
 
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  • #2
What is a genius in your opinion? I ask because I'm trying to imagine what your ideal answer would be from this thread. If you want a paper that shows the effect of coffee on intellectual performance that's easy, if you want a paper showing coffee consumption rates amongst scientists that could be hard to find and if you want a paper showing famous scientists with information on their coffee habits then I'd bet a lot you're going to be sorely disappointed.
 
  • #3
Hmm... well I am interested in caffeine consumption in general, and success of scientists who do not consume caffeine (if they exist).

Also, if people here have any personal experience of caffeine consumption before/after -effects. Say, if a regular consumer would have stopped drinking caffeine for atleast 6months and monitored her own performance/mood/thoughts.

According to the study it should affect hippocampal neurogenesis, meaning that learning new things might be slower/harder, and Teslas comment made me think about imagination, too.

Another motivation might be that "big papers" have many times been published at a young age, so I am wondering if there's a link to caffeine consumption as well. If long term caffeine consumption affects hippocampus in a negative way.
 
  • #4
NeOH, your study is from 2007, a new 2014 study finds that caffeine improves long term memory.

Caffeine has positive effect on memory, Johns Hopkins researchers say

Now, researchers at Johns Hopkins University have found another use for the popular stimulant: memory enhancer.

Michael Yassa, an assistant professor of psychological and brain sciences at Johns Hopkins, and his team of scientists found that caffeine has a positive effect on our long-term memory. Their research, http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nn.3623.html, shows that caffeine enhances certain memories at least up to 24 hours after it is consumed.

"We've always known that caffeine has cognitive-enhancing effects, but its particular effects on strengthening memories and making them resistant to forgetting has never been examined in detail in humans," said Yassa, senior author of the paper. "We report for the first time a specific effect of caffeine on reducing forgetting over 24 hours."

http://hub.jhu.edu/2014/01/12/caffeine-enhances-memory
 
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  • #5
Evo said:
NeOH, your study is from 2007, a new 2014 study finds that caffeine improves long term memory.
http://hub.jhu.edu/2014/01/12/caffeine-enhances-memory

"The Johns Hopkins researchers conducted a double-blind trial in which participants who did not regularly eat or drink caffeinated products received either a placebo or a 200-milligram caffeine tablet five minutes after studying a series of images."
That is a little bit different though, the 2007 research agrees on the short term benefits.
However, your study does not discuss the affect of caffeine on memory from a long-term of regular consumption.
 
  • #6
They consider the effects long term. Apparently studies like the one you want may not exist.

Little research has been conducted on the effect of caffeine on long-term memory. Of the few studies that have been done, the general consensus was that caffeine had little to no effect on long-term memory. One reason the results were different with Yassa's study may have been that the subjects were given caffeine only after they had view and attempted to memorize images.

"Almost all prior studies administered caffeine before the study session, so if there is an enhancement, it's not clear if it's due to caffeine's effects on attention, vigilance, focus or other factors. By administering caffeine after the experiment, we rule out all of these effects and make sure that if there is an enhancement, it's due to memory and nothing else," said Yassa, who conducted the research at Johns Hopkins before moving his lab to the University of California, Irvine at the beginning of this year.

"The next step for us is to figure out the brain mechanisms underlying this enhancement," he said. "We can use brain-imaging techniques to address these questions. We also know that caffeine is associated with healthy longevity and may have some protective effects from cognitive decline like Alzheimer's disease. These are certainly important questions for the future."

http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/5629/20140113/caffeine-boosts-long-term-memory-humans.htm
 
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  • #7
Yeah, no doubt caffeine helps if one has not consumed caffeine before, or if the dose has been lower before.

However I am curious about the long-term effects.
And became more interested in it due to the following reasons:

My grand father, a physicist, has consumed quite much coffee during his life (3-5cups per day) and my grand mother, a chemist, none (only some tea). They are the same age. And currently, my grand mother learns new things faster by explanation, and can complete sudokus and kakuros in half of the time my grandfather does. However, I don't know if it has to do with caffeine since I don't know how they succeeded as they were younger.

A guy called Scott Young completed 4-year MIT degree (from online) in a year, he has a website where he talks about it. I emailed him and he told me he didn't not consume coffee at all, or caffeine regularly.

We have 3 "super" students in our university. One completed a bachelor and masters in mathematics in 14 months, one completed a theoretical physics bachelor and masters in 3 years, third in 3.5 years. After talking with them, the mathematician didn't consume caffeine, the physicists didn't consume anything regularly either.

It is not really evidence for anything, but reasons why I am curious about to know more of long-term caffeine consumption effects.
 
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  • #8
http://hub.jhu.edu/2014/01/12/caffeine-enhances-memory

It is not clear to me that this study actually shows enhanced memory. What seems to have been enhanced is the process of "pattern separation," which strikes me as having more to do with attention to detail than "deeper level of memory retention."

The Johns Hopkins researchers conducted a double-blind trial in which participants who did not regularly eat or drink caffeinated products received either a placebo or a 200-milligram caffeine tablet five minutes after studying a series of images. Salivary samples were taken from the participants before they took the tablets to measure their caffeine levels. Samples were taken again one, three, and 24 hours afterwards.

The next day, both groups were tested on their ability to recognize images from the previous day's study session. On the test, some of the visuals were the same as those from the day before, some were new additions, and some were similar but not the same.

More members of the caffeine group were able to correctly identify the new images as "similar" to previously viewed images rather than erroneously citing them as the same.

The brain's ability to recognize the difference between two similar but not identical items, called pattern separation, reflects a deeper level of memory retention, the researchers said.

"If we used a standard recognition memory task without these tricky similar items, we would have found no effect of caffeine," Yassa said. "However, using these items requires the brain to make a more difficult discrimination—what we call pattern separation, which seems to be the process that is enhanced by caffeine in our case."
 
  • #9
Some foods (chocolate for example) and medications contain caffeine. When I had the stress test on my heart, I wasn't allowed caffeine, so only water and some fruit juices were allowed, they said even drinks labeled "caffeine free" contained enough caffeine to mess up the test.
 
  • #10
Evo said:
Some foods (chocolate for example) and medications contain caffeine. When I had the stress test on my heart, I wasn't allowed caffeine, so only water and some fruit juices were allowed, they said even drinks labeled "caffeine free" contained enough caffeine to mess up the test.
you are right. But consuming 10mg of caffeine per day from chocolate and food is still quite different from 200mg+.
One will not get noticeable withdrawal symptoms from such quantities.

I think if caffeine would have effect on long term memory it would be from higher caffeine consumption.
And if it was the case, I think reasons could be lower sleep quality and higher cortisol levels.

Chronic long term stress, which includes having prolonged high cortisol levels is known to cause havoc in the hippocampus: not only slow down neurogenes but may even result in destruction of cells in there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_stress_on_memory
 
  • #13
NeOH said:
what is your point?
That you can get as much caffeine from drinking tea as coffee.
 
  • #14
Evo said:
That you can get as much caffeine from drinking tea as coffee.

okay I assume you are posting to rootone
 
  • #15
NeOH said:
okay I assume you are posting to rootone
No, it was in response to your post #7.
 
  • #16
Evo said:
No, it was in response to your post #7.
Well I wrote on the topic "coffe/caffeine". I expect its widely known tea has caffeine in it, excluding herbal tea.
I wrote my grandmother didnt drink coffe, but "only some tea", by which I meant she drank tea rarely.

I don't see how this has anything to do with the topic though.
 
  • #17
I suggest that you re-phrase and refine your topic question to avoid the prejudices associated with genius and perhaps IQ. I drink three 10 oz. cups of coffee every day.
 
  • #18
Doug Huffman said:
I suggest that you re-phrase and refine your topic question to avoid the prejudices associated with genius and perhaps IQ. I drink three 10 oz. cups of coffee every day.

I don't see why? Surely alcohol affects a genius mind as well, so why would not caffeine, if it has long-term effects other than increased adeosine-receptors in brain.
Hence, I wrote about it in the opening post.

Also,
"People who boast about their IQ are losers." -Stephen Hawking
 
  • #19
NeOH said:
I would like to know how many geniuses didnt drink caffeine in a daily basis if any when they did their major work?
Or current geniuses?
To avoid conducting a mere exercise in confirmation bias, you need to gather as much information as you can about non-geniuses, and also morons who didn't or don't drink caffeine. You're already associating the genius of geniuses with absence of caffeine. You need to see if a lack of genius could equally be correlated with absence of caffeine.

Ive heard rumours that Tesla didnt drink coffee after realizing it affected his imagination, but I don't know if he continued drinking it later on.
You need to pin this story down to a rock solid source before granting it any consideration at all. Tesla is worse than most historical figures for the cloud of misinformation that surrounds him. If there's any truth in it, the actual story has to be considered as is, and anything about Tesla's mind has to be viewed in the context of his severe OCD.

I read:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17400186

which states: "long-term consumption of caffeine could inhibit hippocampus-dependent learning and memory partially through inhibition of hippocampal neurogenesis."

The wiki article on neurogenesis has this to say:

Role in Learning

The functional relevance of adult neurogenesis is uncertain,[28] but there is some evidence that hippocampal adult neurogenesis is important for learning andmemory.[29] Multiple mechanisms for the relationship between increased neurogenesis and improved cognition have been suggested, including computational theories to demonstrate that new neurons increase memory capacity,[30] reduce interference between memories,[31] or add information about time to memories.[32]Experiments aimed at ablating neurogenesis have proven inconclusive, but several studies have proposed neurogenic-dependence in some types of learning,[33] and others seeing no effect.[34] Studies have demonstrated that the act of learning itself is associated with increased neuronal survival.[35] However, the overall findings that adult neurogenesis is important for any kind of learning are equivocal.

In other words, there's no unequivocal evidence inhibited hippocampal neurogenesis would have much effect. All it might mean, if it means anything, is a person with a 160 I.Q. might possibly test at 165 if they didn't drink caffeine. The difference between your grandfather and grandmother is probably much better accounted for by other factors.
 
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What is the relationship between coffee/caffeine and genius?

There is no direct causal relationship between coffee/caffeine and genius, but caffeine has been shown to have some cognitive-enhancing effects such as increased alertness, concentration, and memory. These effects may contribute to an improved performance in tasks that require a certain level of intelligence.

Does coffee/caffeine make you smarter?

Caffeine may temporarily improve cognitive function, but it does not make you smarter in the long term. It can help with concentration and focus, but it does not increase intelligence or creativity.

Is there a recommended amount of coffee/caffeine for optimal brain function?

The recommended daily intake of caffeine is 400mg for adults. However, the optimal amount for brain function may vary from person to person depending on their sensitivity to caffeine and their caffeine consumption habits.

Can too much coffee/caffeine have negative effects on brain function?

Consuming too much caffeine can lead to negative effects on brain function such as anxiety, restlessness, and difficulty sleeping. It can also lead to caffeine dependence and tolerance, making it less effective in improving cognitive function.

Are there other factors that contribute to "genius" besides coffee/caffeine?

Yes, there are many other factors that contribute to intelligence and creativity, such as genetics, education, environment, and lifestyle choices. While caffeine may have some cognitive-enhancing effects, it is not the sole determinant of genius.

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