College Acceptance Standards: How Important is Grades & CS?

[TylerH]

I've been considering college a lot lately, as I'm currently a junior in high school. I plan on double or triple majoring on some combination of pure math, CS, and some theoretical physics. I make good grades now, but have not always done so, due to lack of interest and some juvenile delinquency. My question pertains to how important it is, to upper level math and science universities, to have always done good in school. Will the fact I got a 73 in Freshman English(yes, I realize English != math/science, but it's still a really bad grade) be a significant factor? Will they care that I'm taking Calc I, as a junior in high school, at my local community college next semester(I will also take II and III before college.)? How common is it for a student to enter college with that much higher education already completed?

Thanks,
Tyler

 

[Null_]

I'm a freshman now, but I can answer on some of your latter questions from first-hand experience.

I go to a top-20 school for engineering (public), to give you a little context.

Where do you want to apply?
In general though, I would venture to say a 73 in English would not affect your changes to be accepted. You will probably have to retake it later on (or go ahead and do it next year), but there are a multitude of reasons why that happened. As long as your SATs and entrance essays show that you can write, you're probably fine.

I have a lot of friends who last semester (first semester of their first year at college) who started in DiffEq, which is after Calc III. It's not uncommon, and as long as you do well in the Calculus series and make sure that you know the material (some CCs are quite lax on teaching the sciences compared to the university you'll be attending). I.E. brush up on everything before classes, as you're expected to know all of it.

I have a friend who's a senior by credit hours and another few friends who are juniors. It's their first year at university. It may just be my friend circles, but it's not incredibly uncommon.Good luck in your endeavors.

 

[TylerH]

Thanks, that answered everything I wanted know. I think I was a little vague though. When I said freshman, I meant 9th grade. I know colleges look at 11th and 12th the most, but I was a little worried that may glance at my earlier stuff, and if they did a 73 will certainly catch their eyes.

 

[Null_]

Definitely. A 73 in a freshman course hardly matters IF you show improvement in the subject. Good job!

 

[General_Sax]

Thanks, that answered everything I wanted know. I think I was a little vague though. When I said freshman, I meant 9th grade. I know colleges look at 11th and 12th the most, but I was a little worried that may glance at my earlier stuff, and if they did a 73 will certainly catch their eyes.

No one is going to care about your 9th grade english mark.

 

[TylerH]

I'm planning my classes for Senior year now, and, assuming I can take Intro to Proof and Logic and Calculus II over the Summer, I'll be taking Calculus III, Theory of Arithmetic, Intro to Linear Algebra, and Real Analysis Fall semester next year.

Three questions: Will taking exceptionally advanced classes like these significantly increase my chances at exceptional schools in the lack of social extracurriculars? (ie MIT) Are classes like those exceptional among those applying to MIT? And, is taking those classes concurrently advisable?

social extracurriculars := clubs, etc.
unsocial extracurriculars := OS kernel development, etc.

Thanks for your time.

 

[TylerH]

or not...

 

[AlephZero]

unsocial extracurriculars := OS kernel development, etc.

Whether that is unsocial or social dependis how you did it.

On the one hand, you could work all on your own tweaking a few lines of C++ till it did what you wanted, with no particular concern about whether or not anybody else wanted the same thing,

On the other hand, you could talk on the web to 10 or 100 very knowlegeable software developers about why the code is the way it is, and what would be the best strategy to improve it.

You should be able to work out for yourself whch option would benefit your application most...

For the wider question, don't forget the obvious point. If an "exceptional" school has 100 places available and gets 1000 applications, that means there will be 900 people rejected. That will still be the case even if every applicant has straight As across every subject, and non-academic qualifications to match.

 

[TylerH]

First: Thanks for answering.

On the one hand, you could work all on your own tweaking a few lines of C++ till it did what you wanted, with no particular concern about whether or not anybody else wanted the same thing,

I don't "tweak." Everything's 100% original.

On the other hand, you could talk on the web to 10 or 100 very knowlegeable software developers about why the code is the way it is, and what would be the best strategy to improve it.

Would they actually consider that "social?" By social, I take it to mean that it requires you to meet in person and collaborate. In my experience, and the knowledgeable developers I've spoken to, there's really no collaboration in an early kernel. There are too many polarizing issues to attract people to a dictatorship without already having some considerable amount of work done. People don't get into kernel development to do the same thing that's already been done 50 times over, there are defining features that are uncompromisable. Mine's portability, modularity, and correct OOP principles(you know where this one came from, if you've ever seen Linux).

For the wider question, don't forget the obvious point. If an "exceptional" school has 100 places available and gets 1000 applications, that means there will be 900 people rejected. That will still be the case even if every applicant has straight As across every subject, and non-academic qualifications to match.

Okay... let me clarify. Do colleges care if I take classes like those? My point behind doing what I'm doing is to make up for not starting early with AP classes, etc and to stand out, in general. The effect I'm going for is "Wow, this kid took real analysis in HS. We want him." Can I expect such a reaction, or is it unreasonably optimistic?

 

[jowens1988]

I'm planning my classes for Senior year now, and, assuming I can take Intro to Proof and Logic and Calculus II over the Summer, I'll be taking Calculus III, Theory of Arithmetic, Intro to Linear Algebra, and Real Analysis Fall semester next year.

...

Are classes like those exceptional among those applying to MIT? And, is taking those classes concurrently advisable?

I am not sure if classes like those are exceptional amongst those appying to MIT. But what's the rush? You will have plenty of time to take Linear Algebra and Analysis when you get to college. I cannot imagine that you would benefit too much from taking these classes at a community college, anyway. If you plan on majoring in mathematics or physics, a strong understanding of the basics will do you much better than a sloppy treatment of Analysis and/or Linear Algebra. As far as taking them concurrently, well, at my University, you need two rigorous, proof-based courses before you can enroll in Analysis I. Analysis done right will certainly give you a challenge like you've not faced before.

 

[TylerH]

It's not at a CC; it's at a nearby university.

The only prereq for it is a proof class and Calc II. The 2 classes I intend to take this Summer.

The rush is because I plan to triple major and don't want to go an extra semester to graduate. I figure that if I can get most of a math major for free through dual enrollment, then I might as well go ahead and do it, and in the process I could make a triple major more like a double with a minor.

 

[Nicook5]

No one is going to care about your 9th grade english mark.

if you're planning on applying to MIT it will though. They have plenty of apps with a 4.0(unweighted) and people who've taken those math classes, I know a couple. I know that I also don't look very highly upon summer courses in something important to 'get ahead', but many people disagree with me on this.

They will still help you stand out in other colleges, but simply taking those classes probably won't set you apart for top schools, such as MIT. They'll probably give you a fighting chance though.

 

[TylerH]

Yeah, I'm not only interested in MIT. I realize my chances among their applicants are nearly nonexistent. We I ask if they make a difference, I'm referring to college admissions in general. It may seem like a given, but I've been told by a few people that most colleges won't care at all, which doesn't make sense, IMHO; that's why I'm asking.

 

[Vanadium 50]

It's good to look at the backgrounds of people providing advice.

MIT accepts a lot of people with 4.0's. MIT rejects a lot of people with 4.0's. MIT accepts a lot of people without 4.0's. MIT rejects a lot of people without 4.0's. Does one grade your freshman year matter? At some level, everything matters. Is the admissions committee going to say, "This guy is in...no question about it! Wait...I just noticed. Four years ago he got a C in English. Forget it - toss the app." Of course not.

That said, "juvenile delinquency" is a red flag, as is "triple major". Behavior issues are always a concern, and the committee will have to guess as to whether you have really reformed yourself or if your bad behavior is merely paused. And while "double major" may send the message "broad interests" and "ambitious", "triple major" sends the messages "can't make up his mind" and "probably overestimating his own ability".