Can Negative Mass Really Defy Gravity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of negative mass and its implications in physics, particularly in relation to gravity and spacetime. Participants explore theoretical aspects, potential applications, and the credibility of popular science representations of negative mass.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference Michio Kaku's mention of negative mass in "Physics of the Impossible" and question how it might affect geodesics in spacetime, suggesting it could lead to negative curvature.
  • Others argue that negative mass does not exist, criticizing Kaku's portrayal of the concept as fantasy physics aimed at entertainment rather than scientific accuracy.
  • One participant points out that negative mass is mentioned in peer-reviewed literature, indicating that it is a recognized but speculative concept in theoretical physics.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between negative mass and violations of energy conditions, with some participants asserting that these are not the same and questioning the motivations behind discussing negative mass in this context.
  • Another participant expresses frustration with the dismissive attitudes towards popular science figures like Kaku and Greene, advocating for a more open inquiry into the questions raised by their work.
  • One participant references Kip Thorne's work on exotic materials in wormholes, suggesting that negative energy density could be related to the concept of negative mass.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the existence and validity of negative mass, with some defending its theoretical exploration while others dismiss it as non-existent and unscientific. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views present.

Contextual Notes

Some claims about negative mass and energy conditions are not fully substantiated within the discussion, and there are references to specific literature that may require further examination to clarify the distinctions being made.

stglyde
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Michio Kaku mentions in his TV series "Physics of the Impossible" about negative mass being able to repel gravity. I haven't heard much about this before.

How would the negative mass affects the geodesic in spacetime manifold? Perhaps by causing negative curvature of spacetime? Would this actually make object float without propulsion but merely maintaining or stabilizing the negative mass?
 
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"Beam me up, Scotty." You haven't heard much about negative mass, stglyde, because it doesn't exist. They don't call the program "Physics of the Impossible" for nothing. Kaku has discovered how much money can be made by talking about fantasy physics as if it were real. There's apparently a big audience for this. If you want to learn about physics, TV is not the place to do it.
 
Bill_K said:
"Beam me up, Scotty." You haven't heard much about negative mass, stglyde, because it doesn't exist. They don't call the program "Physics of the Impossible" for nothing. Kaku has discovered how much money can be made by talking about fantasy physics as if it were real. There's apparently a big audience for this. If you want to learn about physics, TV is not the place to do it.

No. Kaku didn't invent the term. It's just an uncommon term that is even mentioned in peer reviewed journal:

http://rmp.aps.org/abstract/RMP/v29/i3/p423_1

Anyway. Wiki mentioned it as:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_mass

"In theoretical physics, negative mass is a hypothetical concept of matter whose mass is of opposite sign to the mass of the normal matter. Such matter would violate one or more energy conditions and show some strange properties such as being repelled rather than attracted by gravity. It is used in certain speculative theories, such as on the construction of wormholes. The closest known real representative of such exotic matter is a region of pseudo-negative pressure density produced by the Casimir effect."
 
Bill_K said:
"Beam me up, Scotty." You haven't heard much about negative mass, stglyde, because it doesn't exist. They don't call the program "Physics of the Impossible" for nothing. Kaku has discovered how much money can be made by talking about fantasy physics as if it were real. There's apparently a big audience for this. If you want to learn about physics, TV is not the place to do it.

+1 on that !
 
Bill_K said:
"Beam me up, Scotty." You haven't heard much about negative mass, stglyde, because it doesn't exist. They don't call the program "Physics of the Impossible" for nothing. Kaku has discovered how much money can be made by talking about fantasy physics as if it were real. There's apparently a big audience for this. If you want to learn about physics, TV is not the place to do it.
+2 on that!

I am getting to despise those kinds of TV shows. A good measure of the non-scientific nature of the spoutings of Kaku/Greene/pick your poison spout is to look at the traffic on this site. It spikes. We have to clean up after their mess.
 
OK, am not a Kaku fan (at least his pop sci personality, some of his technical books have been quite helpful for me) and have never seen Greene, but is it possible to find a good question in the nonsense?

Eg. Are Barcelo and Visser justified in claiming the null energy condition "moribund"?
 
atyy said:
OK, am not a Kaku fan and have never seen Greene, but is it possible to find a good question in the nonsense?

Eg. Are Barcelo and Visser justified in claiming the null energy condition "moribund"?

Violation of the energy conditions is not at all the same as negative mass. It's been a little while since I looked at the paper you reference (I had a thread about it here, to discuss alternatives to energy conditions), but I don't recall negative mass in any of their motivations for the limitations of energy conditions.
 
PAllen said:
Violation of the energy conditions is not at all the same as negative mass. It's been a little while since I looked at the paper you reference (I had a thread about it here, to discuss alternatives to energy conditions), but I don't recall negative mass in any of their motivations for the limitations of energy conditions.

What then is negative mass?
 
I see nothing wrong in having questions about negative mass, which is not a priory excluded by GR. Also I do not see any point in slandering Kaku or Greene.

Frankly I do not understand the arrogant attitude of some of those who have the label "science advisor" on this forum.
 
  • #10
One reason I thought "negative mass" could be a handwavy reference to an energy condition violation is eg. Thorne refers to exotic material in a wormhole having negative energy density, says that energy is mass, and this negative mass defocusses light beams http://books.google.com/books?id=GzlrW6kytdoC&dq=thorne+worm&source=gbs_navlinks_s p488.

Passionflower said:
Also I do not see any point in slandering Kaku ...

I'm sure he'll take our "slander" as a compliment! He writes technical books too which are sane, sane, sane. I'm sure this is his stage personality! Reminds me of :biggrin:
 
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